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I've been browsing through the forums and one of the thoughts I've had is couldn't radio comms post SHTF be a security risk?

The way I'm thinking about it is surely the military has a way of tracking a radio transmition to a location?

And if they can do it surely someone else could?

And if we're prepared enough to be able to communicate with one another won't that bring unwanted attention, a sort of "hey I wonder what else they have" senario with either the military or others turning up to see what we have?

Also if we had some way of encrypting the radio transmittion that would make them even more determined to track us as we are obviously well preparred and hiding something (of value post-SHTF)?

P.S. I have absolutely NO knowledge of radio comms so you'll have to go slowly for me so I can understand and hopefully learn something Smile
HI 88 Yes the police, BT and the military can track back to you by a process called TRIANGULATION, basically so long as you are broadcasting ( pressing the mike key) your radio is sending out a signal. The authorities or bad guys basically drive around the area with a directional radio reciever, IE the aerial on THEIR radio picks up signals coming from specific directions. so what they do is stop at randon point A and rotate their aerial through 360 degrees and make a not of which direction is coming from strongest. then they move again to positions B and C and repeat the exercise. Then on a map they draw a line from the three points in the direction they got the strongest signals from and where those lines cross each other is where you are broadcasting from.

So in the first YES radios COULD be a security risk if you sat on your Cb chasting away merrily with your group where ever they were. BUT If you kept your broadcasts brief, perhaps only squeezing the Mike and saying a few specific code words based on common sense rather than anything James Bondish then radios can improve your security and comms.

Daft examples of simple codes, squeeze the mike and say " Base to XXXX" ( you pick the names)
(1) Lunch = dinner is ready so come home
(2) Change = time to swap places
(3) Meeting = Go to the pre arranged meeting place I need to see you
(4) Go to location X , Y, or Z = means go to a pre arranged location
(5) Bandits then the distance. ( north/ south/ east/ west ) XXX miles of YOUR / MY location = bad people are NSEW of your or my location.
This one is one I and some other preppers actually use and only well read preppers know what it means
(6) Alas Babylon when I text, phone, fax or E mail that phrase to my family and group members they ALL know exactly what they are to do WITHOUT QUESTION, Without delay.

Also as we discussed only yesterday on the radio thread Its is not always and possibly NEVER prudent to broadcast from your main home or retreat, If you need to send out routine but important messages your radio should be portable, preferably HAND HELD ( only my opinion) or if a big CB, car battery and long aerial in a base type set up they should be located at least 500 yards and well out of sight from your home. Indeed ideally unless its a distress call or emergency call AFTER TSHTF you should not broadcast from your home location.

The French, Dutch, Danish, Greek and Norwegian militias and Marquis during WW2 always moved their radio stations after easch broadcast to prevent the Gestapo from triangulating their position.
Very good post NR this should be one of your write ups, in fact do a full write up copy this and add to it.
Do you mean you want this article but expanded upon?
(4 August 2012, 19:08)NorthernRaider Wrote: [ -> ]Do you mean you want this article but expanded upon?

Yes everything NR, it would be most welcomed.
Try this then tell me what you think needs expanding or altering

Radio Comms Security
If you use 2 way radios the military can track back to you by a process called TRIANGULATION, basically so long as you are broadcasting ( pressing the mike key) your radio is sending out a signal. The authorities or bad guys basically drive around the area with a directional radio receiver IE the aerial on THEIR radio picks up signals coming from specific directions. So what they do is stop at random point A and rotate their aerial through 360 degrees and make a note of which direction is coming from strongest. Then they move again to positions B and C and repeat the exercise. Then on a map they draw a line from the three points in the direction they got the strongest signals from and where those lines cross each other (Intersect) is where you are broadcasting from.

So in the first YES radios COULD be a security risk if you sat on your CB chatting away merrily with your group where ever they were. BUT If you kept your broadcasts brief, perhaps only squeezing the Mike and saying a few specific code words based on common sense rather than anything James Bondish then radios can improve your security and comms.

Daft examples of simple codes, squeeze the mike and say " Base to XXXX" (you pick the names)
(1) Lunch = dinner is ready so come home
(2) Change = time to swap places
(3) Meeting = Go to the prearranged meeting place I need to see you
(4) Go to location X , Y, or Z = means go to a prearranged location
(5) Bandits then the distance. (North/ south/ east/ west) XXX miles of YOUR / MY location = bad people are XXX miles N,S,E,W of your or my location.

This one is one I and some other preppers actually use and only well-read preppers know what it means
(6) ‘Alas Babylon’ when I text, phone, fax or E mail that phrase to my family and group members they ALL know exactly what they are to do WITHOUT QUESTION, Without delay.

Also as we discussed only yesterday on the radio thread It is not always and possibly NEVER prudent to broadcast from your main home or retreat, If you need to send out routine but important messages your radio should be portable, preferably HAND HELD (only my opinion) or if a big CB, car battery and long aerial in a base type set up they should be located at least 500 yards and well out of sight from your home. Indeed ideally unless it’s a distress call or emergency call AFTER TSHTF you should not broadcast from your home location.


The French, Dutch, Danish, Greek and Norwegian militias and Marquis during WW2 always moved their radio stations after each broadcast to prevent the Gestapo from triangulating their position.
When you use a radio start by calling the person you want “Hello XXXX”
Followed by YOUR callsign “This is ZZZZ”
Then the body of the message “Am now 7 miles from your location and will be at destination in 20 minutes”
Then if you are expecting a reply from ZZZZ you will finish with “OVER”
But if you are not expecting or wanting a reply you will finish with “OUT”
Unless you are going to then talk to another member of your group then you would say “OUT TO YOU, Hello YYYY this is ZZZZ”
So for example the above called would be “Hello XXXX this is ZZZZ Am now 7 miles from your location and will be at destination in 20 minutes”
*** Note just how quick you can get that message out, a few seconds and its done.

The above ASSUMES the stations you are calling are listening and probably at an agreed time, BUT if you want to CONFIRM the caller is listening and CONFIRM receipt of the message you would add two more pieces.
To confirm the other station is listening you would start your call with
“Hello XXXX this is ZZZZ message over”
Then if they are listening they will respond with
“Hello ZZZZ this is XXXX SEND over”
Then you would send your message.

IF however the message was high priority and you want to know they received it correctly you would start with
“Hello XXXX this is ZZZZ, READ BACK message over”
XXXX should then reply with “Send Read back message over”
You will then send the message ending in Over and they will immediately read it back to you finishing with “Over”
You will then sign off with “Roger OUT”
No messages should last more than a few seconds.
DO NOT, I REPEAT do not give locations, grid refs or addresses out over the air, you should have briefed each other on your locations and destination or objective BEFORE they set out.
So for example if you wanted XXXX to go to the Bug Out location twelve miles north east of the groups home base you would say to them “ Move to BOL12 Miles north of MY LOCATION nothing more they should already know where base is and can work out destination from that info.
Similarly you could advise them to go to another location “Move to motorway junction 8 miles East South East of your current location Over”. Or you could tell them you are moving by saying “We are moving 11 miles north of our current location Over”
Don’t give listeners any clues as to whom or where you are, or where you are going, or what you are doing.


What you don’t want to hear is “ Hey dad we have finished getting gas bottles from the Calor Depot so now we are going back along the A19 to B & Q to get the 8 x 4 boards, we should be heading north to get home after 3 pm”
That info will see you DEAD.
Regular Broadcasts
If for example your group decides to send out or make calls at agreed times, chances are sooner or later the bad guys will start listening in as well, and over a period of days even with your short broadcast they MAY be able to get a triangulation fix on you. So what you should be doing is making your regular calls from different locations every time AND NEVER IN A CIRCULAR PATTERN RADIATING OUT FROM YOUR RETREAT.
Stick your base station on a cart, bike, horse, back pack or vehicle and go away from your base to a randomly selected but previously reccied for security safe location.
Make your broadcasts at agreed time on agreed channel clearly, concisely and swiftly. Then only stay in that location in case one of your groups has an urgent reply.
If they do send you a reply, very briefly acknowledge receipt then MOVE straight away.
In time perhaps some civility and normality will return to society and security issues can be relaxed, but so long as there are people who may wish to rob you of your supplies or worse your radio security is vital.
If you set up a big blooming base station at home and the roof of your house is adorned with 18 ft long aerials you are just asking for trouble if the disaster is any sort of societal collapse. Keep your kit discrete.
Do use phonetics if its long numbers or complicated words you are using.
Be Clear
Be Concise
Be understandable
Be Security Aware
Be Brief
Be Mobile.
Be Prepared !!!!
I will read this tomorrow or later today as you can see by the post I am up late, wanted to get stove in place and up a vid to YouTube, thanks for the write up, If need be will comment later.
NR

Excellent Protocol. Your training is well remembered I see :-)

Thanks for this.

LS
(5 August 2012, 07:30)Lightspeed Wrote: [ -> ]NR

Excellent Protocol. Your training is well remembered I see :-)

Thanks for this.

LS

Our radio instructor was from the Para support group of the Royal Signals, he was very persuasive with a sharp pointy stick, its difficult to forget Sunray Major threatening to shove the rough end of a Pineapple up the jacksie of Watchdog 1 (me) if I got it wrong again.
Thanks NR that is what I wanted.

Laminator time and kids will read and re-read and train.

If any more info needed, I will post as and when they tell me.
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