If the population suffers a massive loss through natural or otherwise disaster our power, sanitation, telecoms, transport and other utilities and infrastructure will grind to a halt.
What of them would be in your opinions the most vital to switch back on?
As most systems rely on computers I would think power would be the most important, given that most of us wouldn't know where to start in any power plant in the running and maintainence of I suppose localised generators hooked up to other facilities would be the most logical move until the skills needed could be developed to get the chimneys stoked... What then would you dedicate your limited resources (generators and fuel)?
Transport is a good one, namely rail, as communications trade and aid could be delivered in person and on mass.
Communications would be vital and I'm led to believe from telecoms engineers that there are built in fail safes designed to operate with little or no input from engineers though the system dates back to pre 1950's tech so unsure on reliability, plus these are wired lines are for military and government use only. as a foot note on telecoms many exchanges (buildings that house the equipment) have lead lined and deep shelters complete with hardened vault doors (can confirm they exist as was shown).
Sanitation is an obvious need though we can manage without for a time before populations increase, having running clean water has its obvious advantages to living and indeed in summer months for watering crops with hoses hooked up to the mains.
I mentioned law enforcement/security in another thread in the form of militia so won't cover that here and just imply this has already been established.
Hospitals and pharmacists would be ransacked and medical supplies all but gone by the time people where organised to begin thinking of rebuilding so I imagine that we would rely on herbal remedies and some basic chemistry for developing penicillin and other antibiotics.
So, I'm not entirely sure, if it where up to me I believe that getting transport running would be for the best to begin with and the rest would follow as you scour the nation for survivors that have the skills to operate and train others to do so in places such as power plants and water treatment.
But if you had to choose which to focus on, which we could do without or completely rethink, what would they be, how would you do it?
(19 April 2013, 15:21)Jack Wrote: [ -> ]If the population suffers a massive loss through natural or otherwise disaster our power, sanitation, telecoms, transport and other utilities and infrastructure will grind to a halt.
if the population is that low, why would you want any of them back on? as soon as you get the utilities back on, some bright spark(no pun intended) will want to start making you pay for the privelidge!
Only if you are using it. So you could opt out.
Myself I'd guess the first thing I would be looking for is comms. It is probably the easiest to do.
Water next to get agriculture up and provide clean water although this depends on where you are. Dry area or not.
Medical facilities next although this would depend on the number of people and facilities where you are. Making antibiotics would be a major step.
Lol indeed, and likely work out your forecasted bill, once the phones work you'll probably get cold callers too... But...
They are yes Skean, you'd need a fair bit of chemistry knowledge to attempt it, identifying genus/species, separating contaminates, using a medium best suited to the task for maximum yield, and produce sterile conditions to prevent cross contamination.
Initially preventative natural medicine to bolster immune systems would be good advice (garlic lots and lots as well as onion etc) but a deep cut could be a death sentence so antibacterials and antibiotics as well as antivirals are something I'm looking into.
Not only would they be needed but would be great battering currency.
Bartering*
why is it every time we have this conversation, someone wants everything we had before? just because we have electricity, nuclear power/weapons, computers why do we have to have the same old thing again? why cant we have a DIFFERENT civilisation-one that is "closer to the earth". more agriculturally based? why do we have to have all this technology? its because of technology people are getting lazy..and stupid.
I could cope without electricity, fresh water available 24/7 would be my biggest miss so thats first on my agenda.
(19 April 2013, 16:51)Metroyeti Wrote: [ -> ]I could cope without electricity, fresh water available 24/7 would be my biggest miss so thats first on my agenda.
i wouldnt miss electricity, power tools, tv or computers. as for water a spring sourse would suit me fine, failing that a well.
(19 April 2013, 16:06)Skean Dhude Wrote: [ -> ]Only if you are using it. So you could opt out.
In my region TPTB install utilities and REQUIRE mandatory hookup with minimum payments monthly.
If you refuse to hook up your property is condemned, seized and sold.
If you do not pay your bill they shut you down and bring in Social Services to check your mental state.
Living without water and electric is considered insane, so they put you away!
Getting permits to build off grid is nearly impossible. All the while the Gvt is promoting 'green energy" and refusing to allow its use.
post SHTF I suppose all loss of ROL would make that moot.
As would the off chance anyone here would be exempt from the "die off".
We are very much attached to the idea that is is the other 90% that are going to die.
Post appocolipes the most important power unit will be the small electric pump you use to take petrol out of the underground tanks to keep your farm equipment going.
I am set up to get by without power in the house long term, but I want fuel for my chain saws, pumps, tractor, tillers and mowers. I might be able to get by with 10-15 gallons a year, but I need that to stay alive.
I keep that much stored so I am good for the first year but i want access to the dregs in those underground tanks after the looters get all the Snickers bars and cupcakes.
Addressing both bigpauls and metroyeti's post.
Water would be a high priority utility to have back, its my understanding though that modern systems are regulated by computers so would need electrical input, but as mentioned could be powered by localised generators and should imagine they have their own back ups you could utilise.
Why would you use the existing system? Because it would be an efficient use of pre existing technology and the pipes running to homes to give clean water to the masses. Freeing up much of the time needed in gathering water to instead focus on crops and other issues.
The same systems collect water efficiently to and in times of draught have vast storage capacity.
I'm not suggesting we strive to have everything we had before but improve upon it - in the long term - but initially to use what is already available is a logical approach to recreating society (not replicating it).
Not everyone will be equipped with the skills to be self sufficient and we have had the comforts of electricity, relative safety, clean water and abundance of food to hone our own skills, but in an environment where we are fighting against or if you prefer, working with, the elements poor crop yields and medical concerns teaching future generations, our own children will prove incredibly difficult and at best hope to live like nomads of old, loosing predefined identities developed over hundreds of years that yes is flawed now but I'd like to think I could recognise some of the world my eventual grandchildren will inhabit, and I'd like them to have running water electricity medicines etc....
But the point of the post is IF we are to turn them back on how would we do so?
If you wanted to live away from civilisation and its efforts to pick itself up from a disaster then in your case BP I'm sure you could live happily among the rolling countryside of Devon for the remainder of your years without interference from the lazy stupid people that wish to switch the lights back on
A great place to find diesel, at least in the uk mort, less sure about the US, is rail depots, shipping yards to... They have their own massive fuelling stations and in the early days before people bacame desperate enough to check these off of the beaten track depots will be pretty much full to the brim, no dregs to worry about... Many large transit companies or those with large fleets (BT in England) have depots at many stations to. So keeping your lights on in particular, if you have similar installations, would be very achievable and if you could act quickly enough before those snickers thief's turned to the fuel, relatively safe
we shall only be growing enough for us to live on, maybe a tiny amount for barter if that arises,intend to get some chooks and rabbits for eggs and meat, so dont need much in the way of fuel..just enough to do some scavenging immediately post SHTF, once that is gone will be staying close to home only ranging as far as i can walk or maybe grab a donkey or pony from one of the fields around here...there's 5 ponies in the back field literally 20 seconds walk out of my front door!we intend to live a very low key lifestyle once TSHTF, keeping our heads down and staying out of everyone elses way!
(19 April 2013, 17:20)Jack Wrote: [ -> ]If you wanted to live away from civilisation and its efforts to pick itself up from a disaster then in your case BP I'm sure you could live happily among the rolling countryside of Devon for the remainder of your years without interference from the lazy stupid people that wish to switch the lights back on
i am sure Jack with the monumental task you have set yourself to get all the utilities back on, will take a VERY long time, possibly all the power workers and water engineers and BT people have all perished in the social collapse of society and you would have to operate blind, given that fact i suspect by the time you have accomplished this..if at all... i and OH will have slipped off this mortal coil!
(19 April 2013, 17:20)Jack Wrote: [ -> ]If you wanted to live away from civilisation and its efforts to pick itself up from a disaster then in your case BP I'm sure you could live happily among the rolling countryside of Devon for the remainder of your years without interference from the lazy stupid people that wish to switch the lights back on
by the way Jack, i LIKE that! it sounds like a very, VERY shortened version of my actual plans!!
