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Hi guys just a quick question on something that has been on my mind fore some time. Why is it that the officers in the British and US army always seem too come from non- working class families? This is not a dig at any officers serving or have served as I think anyone that has served in the armed forces is a hero in my eyes. Could any of you serving or have served in the armed forces please give me your expertise or your personal opinion on this matter or even anybody on here that has an opinion.cheers
i think mainly it was traditional , there are many more people from the working classes that are officers nowadays and there are a fair few that come up through the ranks , late entry commissions...these are the soldiers officers usually the most respected and admired...been there done it seen it all officers.

these guys usually only make captain or major because they run out of time....these officer ranks are still pretty much at the sharp end.
just looked it up ,and it said that 50% of the officers come from private school and some come from family's that have hi ranking officers at the head
(31 March 2014, 17:51)Barneyboy Wrote: [ -> ]just looked it up ,and it said that 50% of the officers come from private school and some come from family's that have hi ranking officers at the head

yep, that just about says it all.
I admit to being biased before I go on I believe the officer corps (the Sandhurst mob rather than the class 2 commissions) are simply part and parcel of the social ruling elite of the UK. Many officers go on to be senior civil servants, MPS, Ministers etc, most went to the same socially elite " posh" schools and colleges. The Officer class like the political class is their to ensure their privileged lifestyles and authority are never seriously challenged. Their role is to protect the realm and the establishment from enemies be they foreign or the British working classes

In my service I and many of my colleagues ( not all BTW) usually found the only reliable honest officers were those who were from more ordinary social backgrounds like Grammar School kids who studied engineering bfore joining the Royal engineers.

If one meets or interacts with the members of the Household Brigade, Blues and Royals, Life guards, Guards regiments it is normal 99% of the time to hear posh well spoken south eastern accents among the officers, cept for the odd Scots Guards officers. They are nicknamed Rodneys and Ruperts for good reason. Most are terribly nice cheps wh play polo, live in Ox and Bucks, know the Royal from School and hope to follow pater into a job in the city or politics. ALL are normally social climbing monarchists.

The best officers I ever worked with were Light Inf, RGJ, GH and other line regiment where the officers advanced because of being modestly competent unlike the Household Brigade who promoted because deddy is a Duke.

In my honest opinion the guys that ACTUALLY run the army are the Warrant Officers and the ACTUAL day to day operations are by the Sergeants and Staff / Colour Sergeants ( or Serjeants if you were from a good regiment : ) )

I did meet SOME good Sandhurst types but not many and NONE I would trust with my life.

Anyway getting back on topic Its all about keeping the Mounbattens, Wales's and the ruling social elite in their privileged positions in my opinion, with the slight secondary benefit is indirectly the way the system works to keep the chavs in place.

I would also add that the "Establishment" is also secure in its ruling place because all three mainstream political parties actually work the pseudo democratic system so its always one of them taking turns to run the country PRIMARILY FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT. Millipede, Camoron or Clot all are rich upper middle class members of the system, heck even the " far left Marxist trade unionist and socialist like Dianne Abbott etc who preach about serving the people and hating the " Rich Tories" usually are more than delighted to accept a Knighthood and Titles and go and join the Rich Tories in the Lords.

Its all part of a well sorted system to ensure the social elites position is never seriously compromised and its done so with the full support of the officer corps. EG Everyone right or left winger generally accepts the 1990s Poll Tax was immoral, unjust, unfair, probably illegal and against the bet wishes of the state. Millions from all sides protested, I never yet saw one army unit come out on the side of the people. NOT if their is ever anything untoward thrown about military activities its 99% the enlisted soldier who end up with the conviction and rarely the officers who led them.
Come the day a societal collapse occurs I think the officer corps will do all it can to protect the ruling elite including using force against the civilian population.
In the US Military all officers must have a college degree before being commissioned. (this includes promotion from the ranks) That often reflects on family background and intelligence level. More so in the past, since a larger percentage of our present generation is college educated.

NCO ranks require continued education and a college degree to gain promotion, which is required to continue service. No one sits in the ranks and rides the rocking chair in our military. You promote or leave. I know several people who exited the service after 12-15 years, due to not having the math, science, or communication skills to attain the next level of education to attain their next required promotion.

The tradition of military service often runs through families here in all levels of society. I know many people that trace their family's service through many generations. My own family has served in every official war here and abroad since 1680, and countless frontier skirmishes.

Our country never had hereditary rank, and we never sold/purchased commissions or positions. They have always been earned based on merit. At least that is the official stand.

Who runs what is often a matter of opinion based on whether one was an officer or an EM and whether they were in a combat unit or the catering corps.

I know who did the planning in my unit, I know who executed those plans, and I know who was held accountable when one of those pans failed, and it was not the grunt in the trenches.
I understand the education factor but as you said more people are going to college now it just seems to me that the uk way is unfair to the average soldier can't see why we don't adopt the US way of rising through the ranks. My grandad joined the East Surreys regiment at 16 years old lived through the second world war in Africa and won a bravery medal in Italy at Casino. He made his way up through ranks to sergeant but was told in 1949 that he would not go any further s he wasn't from the right class. For what you all have said it seems to me a bit disgusting that we still in this country treat our brave men and women with contempt.
Barneyboy

RE: ex army ?
I understand the education factor but as you said more people are going to college now it just seems to me that the uk way is unfair to the average soldier can't see why we don't adopt the US way of rising through the ranks.


Erm IIRC The US has college educated officers first just like we do, and both nations allow officers to come from working their way up. My last Company commander a Major was years before my Troop Sergeant. Course there is still masses of snobbery in the forces they encourage it, I wish you could see just how snooty and demeaning some HHB officers were not so long ago to some LI officers primarily because the LI officers don't need to drink the Loyal Toast to HM the Q. However regardless of how competent and great a leader you are in the British army you will rarely hear a Scouse, Geordie, Brummie, Cockney accent in the officers messes of the HHB.
Its just not done old one, one needs to have a bit of clarse about one if one is to proceed far enough to become a staff officer.

Mind you the thought of Wayne or Charmagne doing a Job Centre Training course to become an officer with only their C grade GCSE in Home Economics and Art to support them!!!
well mate ,maybe its time for a change
The army and country recognises bravery, it does not think that Wayne with two GCSEs could rise above the shortcoming of Labours disasterous education system and become better for it. But that is not just the Army, look at the Labour party leader another middle class twit with even less brains than Clog or Camoron. Its our society.
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