I posted this here as I could not find anywhere else that seemed right.
We are talking POST SHTF.
Never mind how long after but we all get old, well usually, and we all die. Today we have an increase in the numbers of elderly and many have problems like dementia and become very frail. Mobility often becomes a major problem.
So we are still going to have elderly in our society so what are going to do with them?
One of the major reasons for our elderly ending up in hospital and or car homes today is because we cannot cope them, we do not know how to handle them.
As an example my father in law tried to look after my mother in law, very admirable, he married her all those years ago and took it seriously. Unfortunately when we visited one time we found her covered in bruises. No he was not ill treating her, it was where he had 'bounced' her up and down the stairs each day, it was the only way he could move her and he did not want to ask for help.
So question is how would you cope POST SHTF with the elderly?
POST SHTF we might NOT have a society to have elderly in! for a long time immediately post SHTF it might be a case of "everybody for themselves", especially if we are all hunkered down, keeping quiet and just trying to survive.
I do feel this is a real issue for many people. There are quite a few of us with elderly relatives, friends, and the alike.
I have frequently thought about this, and I have come to a decision that although each case would need to be taken individually, there is certainly a painful choice that would need to be made for specific individuals (please note, I do think this a REALLY HARSH and VERY morally challenging subject). I will use the example of my father, whom passed away a year and a half ago. WTSHTF, if he was in his situation where he was unwell, and fading fast, I think he would have appreciated a trip to Switzerland, if you know what I mean (bring on the Pro-Life vs Pro-Dignity arguments). Some, and I actually think MANY, individuals would rather pass away nice and peacefully while things were still good. My dad being one of them.
However, there are other people that are still very capable at certain ages, that would much rather continue to live and continue to troop away. For those people, support should be provided. Medication should be stocked. Education should be sort on subjects of help, medicine, and the alike.
But I would say it's a hugely difficult subject.
For bugging out, many older people are unable to cope with the cold. So there would need to be a lot of considerations made for that. The same with a BOL.
Bugging in would be just as difficult, as with things like dementia, if a group is trying to keep a low profile, the last thing you want if your elderly member to just open the curtains at night, or putting the cat out at night, incase it gives away your location.
It's a hugely difficult subject, and one that for myself and my wife, we've thought about already and accounted for how we would cope in our older age. But dealing with other members of a team that may be old...a very different situation altogether.
This came up a while ago somewhere else. As Scythe has said, it's a subject that's full of dilemmas. Speaking for myself, I'm of the opinion that where possible, you care for your elderly as best you can in the situation you find yourself in. Some will barely last a few days without intenseve care and medication, so it would just be a case of making their time left as comfortable as possible. Scythe also mentioned those not wanting to live, there at least we can now give some a dignified end if they request it.
The one thing I firmly believe is that older members of the community often have a great deal more to offer. Lose the elderly and you lose a significant knowledge base.
I think the point John was trying to make was that it was POST SHTF, anyone who relies on outside help to live day to day might just not survive immediately post SHTF, later on when the dust has settled and communities have been established this is when all those noble plans can be put into effect but immediately after the event anyone elderly, infirm, in hospital, in care homes and nursing homes needing help outside the family might find that help is not forthcoming as other people will be looking after their own families not strangers, a shame but a fact of life.
I see it as being my responsibility to look after my elderly parents no matter what in a shtf scenario.
In most countries around the world, including many in europe, it is not unusual for 3 or 4 generations to all live in the same house. The elderly get taken care of my the younger members of the family who in return will be looked after by younger members when they grow old. A similar thing happened in the UK until relatively recently and I expect it would revert back to something similar if things went belly up
A shtf scenario will throw up different challenges I am sure but they are ones that I will have to try and solve to the best of my ability.
One point to remember is that a lot of us preppers will hopefully become elderly ourselves at some point (One of the most prolific posters here is a pensioner himself), It's just another thing that you need to prep for
A lack of meds will be one of the biggest issues I would have thought
Wrote that before I saw the last 2 posts
(23 April 2014, 10:18)John Wrote: [ -> ]I posted this here as I could not find anywhere else that seemed right.
We are talking POST SHTF.
So we are still going to have elderly in our society so what are going to do with them?
One of the major reasons for our elderly ending up in hospital and or car homes today is because we cannot cope them, we do not know how to handle them.
So question is how would you cope POST SHTF with the elderly?
great posts above. I agree with the points made, especially being difficult subject, but neccessary.
Part of the reason we cant cope with them is that we dont have the time in our busy lives of working and running around. In the scenario presented, there may be folks available to help. Some teens for example could make good companions for elderly with dimentia.
I think life expectancy post event will plummet with out specialised medical care , its going to be a very difficult time and whilst i know euthanasia is illegal now and a contentious issue, its something we may have to consider if somebodies quality of life has dropped below a humane level or somebody has unmanageble pain....i would like somebody to make that decision for me were i to find myself with insurmountable health difficulties.
Elders are our Elders and IMHO should be treated with respect for the wisdom they could share with us. Think Tribal. The downside is that life was short, ugly and brutal.
I am, philosophically, pro-life and to set up an Aunt Sally like "pro-life vs pro diginity", puts these complex problems into too smooth a box.
Having said all that, if someone was in extreme uncontrollable pain, would I give a very large dose of Morphine to help them 'out'? Probably.
I know this is an emotive subject especially when its ones own elderly relative but I would like to point out Johns OP did say POST SHTF, so can we discuss it logically with that in mind? or shall we just take it out of context as usual?