23 July 2015, 00:53
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23 July 2015, 01:20
some aquatic antibiotics can be used by humans and obviously do not require a prescription, you just need to learn the trade/generic names of the meds.
also if you travel to mainland Europe the pharmacies sell a lot of meds straight over the counter no prescription required , obviously some meds will get you into trouble if you bring them back but others will just be confiscated if you're unlucky enough to get checked....do your homework and choose usefull meds that won't get you locked up/fined...was in Portugal last year with my biker mates when one guy had difficulty breathing, trip to the pharmacia and we got him some ventopulin and cheaper than a UK prescription!
also if you travel to mainland Europe the pharmacies sell a lot of meds straight over the counter no prescription required , obviously some meds will get you into trouble if you bring them back but others will just be confiscated if you're unlucky enough to get checked....do your homework and choose usefull meds that won't get you locked up/fined...was in Portugal last year with my biker mates when one guy had difficulty breathing, trip to the pharmacia and we got him some ventopulin and cheaper than a UK prescription!
23 July 2015, 05:33
Animal and farm supply stores.
I keep the powdered amoxicillin, eternal shelf life.
I keep the powdered amoxicillin, eternal shelf life.
23 July 2015, 08:06
Probably the only way you can obtain antibiotics in this country without the knowledge of your Doc is the under-the table route, BD. Some folks advocate fish antibiotics, but you have to know what form those antibiotics take, and what function they have. I keep poultry and have a stock of Tylan for problems with gastric upsets. Great for that, but not effective in other conditions. Vets in this country will not prescribe antibiotics that are not already used in some form in the human conditions, so you have to be careful.
23 July 2015, 09:48
even the largest stock of antibiotics wont last forever, we all need to research natural alternatives.
24 July 2015, 07:17
True, but there is no substitute for a manufactured antibiotic if an infection gets a hold of you. I'd put them in the "In emergency, break glass" category rather than the everyday use for them we see at the moment.
FWIW, the anti-malarial drug Doxycycline is an antibiotic. You still need a prescription for it in the UK but it's probably easier to fabricate a planned overseas trip in order to get one. Not sure how strong it is compared to the kind of antibiotics you'd use to fight an infection.
FWIW, the anti-malarial drug Doxycycline is an antibiotic. You still need a prescription for it in the UK but it's probably easier to fabricate a planned overseas trip in order to get one. Not sure how strong it is compared to the kind of antibiotics you'd use to fight an infection.
24 July 2015, 08:01
sure if you can get them from a reputable source, which isn't going to be the usual route of doctors or chemists cos you need a prescription for that, I have only taken antibiotics twice in a very long life and then for minor ailments. I am very suspicious of fish antibiotics, especially anything bought over the internet you could end up taking any kind of rubbish(did you see the report of that girl dying from "diet pills" she bought over the internet...highly toxic!), I would much rather put my trust in a natural remedy I made myself, at least i'd know what was in it.
24 July 2015, 12:40
The Survival Medical Handbook covers the use of Fish Antibiotics:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/09888...detailpage
The fish antibiotics themselves can be purchased on Ebay (from the states):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antibiotics-AM...2a303d0f55
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fish-Flex-Anti...1e855bb5ba
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fish-Pen-Fish-...2a3043bc89
The above book advises on the different types of antibiotics, and what they can be used for, so don't just buy the antibiotics without doing a bit of research first...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/09888...detailpage
The fish antibiotics themselves can be purchased on Ebay (from the states):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antibiotics-AM...2a303d0f55
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fish-Flex-Anti...1e855bb5ba
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fish-Pen-Fish-...2a3043bc89
The above book advises on the different types of antibiotics, and what they can be used for, so don't just buy the antibiotics without doing a bit of research first...
24 July 2015, 18:07
Another view on fish antibiotics:
Investigative Report: Everything You’ve Wanted to Know About Fish Antibiotics for Humans
http://www.thesurvivaldoctor.com/2015/07...or-humans/
First, keep in mind that animal doses may be different from human ones. So make sure you have the correct human dosage. Also confirm that the medication can be safely used in humans. (Some animal meds aren’t safe for humans, and some go by different names than the human ones, so make sure you’re not allergic.)
If you’ve satisfied these two requirements, you still have a couple of other things to consider. Namely, even animal drugs that have the same name as human drugs may not be exactly the same. For example:
FDA regulations for animal and human drugs are determined separately. Animal drugs may contain fillers, additives, and impurities that aren’t allowed in human medications.
Medications are manufactured to absorb just right in the type of body they’re approved for. A cow has two stomachs. A chicken has a gizzard. A fish is tiny.
It’s up to you whether to take the med, but for an expert opinion, we asked pharmacist Jim Budde, president of the Society of Veterinary Hospital Pharmacists, if he’d take such a medicine. He says if it were FDA approved for dogs or cats and it was safe for people, yes, he would feel comfortable taking it. Note that he said he’d take a product that was FDA approved. Believe it or not, there are no such antibiotics for ornamental fish.
In fact, marketing these drugs for use in fish is illegal, according to an FDA source we spoke with. So is selling them in stores, the source said. (Preppers usually order these drugs online).
Therefore, there is no government oversight regarding the safety, purity or effectiveness of fish antibiotics. Budde likens the lack of FDA scrutiny to that of nutritional supplements: there is no guarantee that the pills contain what the manufacturers say they do, either in amount or purity.
In addition, the medication may not absorb correctly. A drug must be manufactured properly to absorb properly. For example, some should melt immediately in the mouth; some should dissolve in the stomach; and others must survive the stomach and dissolve in the intestines.
Some online prepper articles about fish antibiotics speculate that you can get around this lack of FDA oversight by making sure the pills are “pharmaceutical grade” and/or “USP certified.” Yet we found that neither of these terms means much when it comes to fish antibiotics.
“USP certified” seems more promising at first—until you look into the details.
The United States Pharmacopeial Convention is a nonprofit organization that sets quality guidelines for medications. They don’t assess whether a drug is effective or safe; they do set standards for things like storage, purity, and strength. To be sold in the U.S., a drug must pass these standards. We could find no antibiotics for ornamental fish that are USP verified.
However, there are fish antibiotics whose appearance is identical to USP grade human antibiotics. They have the same coloring and imprints (codes printed on the pills), suggesting that they are, in fact, the same capsules.
We contacted one popular company that sells such fish meds. A representative, who asked not to be identified, confirmed that they are the same pills. They’re sourced from a manufacturer that makes them for humans, the representative said. The fish company repackages them.
Still, this does not mean the antibiotics are USP grade, even when a company claims they are.
That’s because, to be USP grade, the pill has to meet every USP standard for that medication. And the standards go far beyond ingredients. They also ensure medications are packaged, labeled, and stored correctly. For example:
Antibiotics are sensitive to heat, so they must be stored at room temperature. (Consider the shipment temperature as well as conditions in facility storage.)
Antibiotics are sensitive to moisture, so they must be stored in tight containers.
The pills must be tested to make sure they don’t have bacteria, mold, or yeast.
The packaging material must not interfere with the drug. For example, plastic shouldn’t absorb into the pill, nor the medication into the plastic.
The USP also has labeling standards, requiring certain warnings and guidelines to be displayed.
Finally, there’s the issue of expiration, which is especially a concern if a medication isn’t stored or shipped optimally. With no FDA oversight, there’s no guarantee of how old a medicine is.
Considering all these things, any fish antibiotic could pose problems to humans. Perhaps the biggest concern is its effectiveness may be reduced. In that case, the med may not work on your infection—or it could weaken the infection, only to have it resurge as an antibiotic-resistant version.
Investigative Report: Everything You’ve Wanted to Know About Fish Antibiotics for Humans
http://www.thesurvivaldoctor.com/2015/07...or-humans/
First, keep in mind that animal doses may be different from human ones. So make sure you have the correct human dosage. Also confirm that the medication can be safely used in humans. (Some animal meds aren’t safe for humans, and some go by different names than the human ones, so make sure you’re not allergic.)
If you’ve satisfied these two requirements, you still have a couple of other things to consider. Namely, even animal drugs that have the same name as human drugs may not be exactly the same. For example:
FDA regulations for animal and human drugs are determined separately. Animal drugs may contain fillers, additives, and impurities that aren’t allowed in human medications.
Medications are manufactured to absorb just right in the type of body they’re approved for. A cow has two stomachs. A chicken has a gizzard. A fish is tiny.
It’s up to you whether to take the med, but for an expert opinion, we asked pharmacist Jim Budde, president of the Society of Veterinary Hospital Pharmacists, if he’d take such a medicine. He says if it were FDA approved for dogs or cats and it was safe for people, yes, he would feel comfortable taking it. Note that he said he’d take a product that was FDA approved. Believe it or not, there are no such antibiotics for ornamental fish.
In fact, marketing these drugs for use in fish is illegal, according to an FDA source we spoke with. So is selling them in stores, the source said. (Preppers usually order these drugs online).
Therefore, there is no government oversight regarding the safety, purity or effectiveness of fish antibiotics. Budde likens the lack of FDA scrutiny to that of nutritional supplements: there is no guarantee that the pills contain what the manufacturers say they do, either in amount or purity.
In addition, the medication may not absorb correctly. A drug must be manufactured properly to absorb properly. For example, some should melt immediately in the mouth; some should dissolve in the stomach; and others must survive the stomach and dissolve in the intestines.
Some online prepper articles about fish antibiotics speculate that you can get around this lack of FDA oversight by making sure the pills are “pharmaceutical grade” and/or “USP certified.” Yet we found that neither of these terms means much when it comes to fish antibiotics.
“USP certified” seems more promising at first—until you look into the details.
The United States Pharmacopeial Convention is a nonprofit organization that sets quality guidelines for medications. They don’t assess whether a drug is effective or safe; they do set standards for things like storage, purity, and strength. To be sold in the U.S., a drug must pass these standards. We could find no antibiotics for ornamental fish that are USP verified.
However, there are fish antibiotics whose appearance is identical to USP grade human antibiotics. They have the same coloring and imprints (codes printed on the pills), suggesting that they are, in fact, the same capsules.
We contacted one popular company that sells such fish meds. A representative, who asked not to be identified, confirmed that they are the same pills. They’re sourced from a manufacturer that makes them for humans, the representative said. The fish company repackages them.
Still, this does not mean the antibiotics are USP grade, even when a company claims they are.
That’s because, to be USP grade, the pill has to meet every USP standard for that medication. And the standards go far beyond ingredients. They also ensure medications are packaged, labeled, and stored correctly. For example:
Antibiotics are sensitive to heat, so they must be stored at room temperature. (Consider the shipment temperature as well as conditions in facility storage.)
Antibiotics are sensitive to moisture, so they must be stored in tight containers.
The pills must be tested to make sure they don’t have bacteria, mold, or yeast.
The packaging material must not interfere with the drug. For example, plastic shouldn’t absorb into the pill, nor the medication into the plastic.
The USP also has labeling standards, requiring certain warnings and guidelines to be displayed.
Finally, there’s the issue of expiration, which is especially a concern if a medication isn’t stored or shipped optimally. With no FDA oversight, there’s no guarantee of how old a medicine is.
Considering all these things, any fish antibiotic could pose problems to humans. Perhaps the biggest concern is its effectiveness may be reduced. In that case, the med may not work on your infection—or it could weaken the infection, only to have it resurge as an antibiotic-resistant version.
24 July 2015, 18:53
If I have a nasty cut from scrounging around for goodies in the rubble, and the cut is showing signs of blood poisoning or gangrene, and all I have available are antibiotics intended for the fish,
I'm taking them.
A little risk assessment here! We are not discussing the choice between taking Vet grade antibiotics or going to urgent care. We are talking about emergency medical treatment when no help is going to be available until the victim is past the hope of healing.
A. you are going to die without treatment
B. the meds may be no good, so you still die. No change in logic here, move along folks.
C. The meds may be good and you live.
!!! The correct answer is C !!!
But you can pick A or B and die if you want too.
And if the meds kill me I was going to die of gangrene anyway! The bad meds just saved me a long agonizing death.
I'm taking them.
A little risk assessment here! We are not discussing the choice between taking Vet grade antibiotics or going to urgent care. We are talking about emergency medical treatment when no help is going to be available until the victim is past the hope of healing.
A. you are going to die without treatment
B. the meds may be no good, so you still die. No change in logic here, move along folks.
C. The meds may be good and you live.
!!! The correct answer is C !!!
But you can pick A or B and die if you want too.
And if the meds kill me I was going to die of gangrene anyway! The bad meds just saved me a long agonizing death.
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