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+---- Thread: A good haemostatic supply (/showthread.php?tid=5744)
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RE: A good haemostatic supply - River Song - 13 September 2013
The haemostatic agents work in the same way whether you use powder or gauze.
They act by quickly stopping the blood flow by acting with the blood to create a jelly like substance,
clotting the blood without creating heat.
I've got no knowledge of it hurting but could very well be.
You wouldn't use this for minor cuts. Probably use regular butterfly strips and a bit if gauze,
But if we are talking about an arterial bleed then yes - use a haemostatic agent. Remember your ABC's.
(Airway Breathing circulation) and if we have a substantial flow of blood, make no mistake, this will kill.
Get the blood stopped immediately and then either ship the patient to A+E
or in a Post TU situation - try the following....
Give it about half an hour to settle down - maybe longer for the blood to totally stop.
Irrigate with large syringe and sterile or at least boiled water.
Clean with Iodine or TCP ( Yes it will hurt)
Pressure pad
That should do it --- but if infection sets in you may have death unless
you have some antibiotics ---- but at least you've tried.
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RE: A good haemostatic supply - Lanky Yankee - 14 September 2013
(13 September 2013, 21:44)Highlander Wrote:(13 September 2013, 21:37)Lanky Yankee Wrote: We use celox dressings, but I would have misgivings using it in a SHTF situation.
1. It hurts like hell when applied so we need to sedate the patient prior to use.
2. It's great at stopping bleeding, but if you use it how are you going to treat the wound after? Usually our patients have to goto theater to have the wound treated (cleaned, bleeding stopped, closure). I'm not sure how long it can stay on a wound before it will become a major issue like infection.
There is no doubt that these are a great bit of kit, but just think about what's going to happen after. I know this sounds hard but if you stop someones bleeding without the ability to treat the wound properly then they will most likely still die. Infection will be rampant and a horrible way to die. I guess if you have someone close by who can treat wounds then it's worth having in your firstaid kit.
Can you explain further about this,... why does it hurt, what causes that?, how does the Celox react when used,... does it go hard or what?,... whats in it that means it cant stay on the wound for long?
..... and is there a more friendly alternative?
So I did someasking around and finally got an answer about the pain during application. It mainly comes down to the pain due to us putting pressure on the wound, not the dressing itself. I've only used them once in anger and the patient was being sedated anyway. RS is correct on how it works, but again for me it all comes down to treatment after. If I'm in a SHTF situation I probably wouldn't use it, mainly because if resources are scarce and I stop this persons bleeding. I'll probablt be the one who has to try and fix things after. thats a lot of supplies to use on this. Not to mention all the meds they will need and food. Triage comes to mind then.
Obviously in everyday world I would have no problems slapping one on someone. If fact I just got 3 to put in my car 1st aid bag.
RE: A good haemostatic supply - River Song - 14 September 2013
(14 September 2013, 14:58)Lanky Yankee Wrote: So I did someasking around and finally got an answer about the pain during application. It mainly comes down to the pain due to us putting pressure on the wound, not the dressing itself. I've only used them once in anger and the patient was being sedated anyway. RS is correct on how it works, but again for me it all comes down to treatment after. If I'm in a SHTF situation I probably wouldn't use it, mainly because if resources are scarce and I stop this persons bleeding. I'll probablt be the one who has to try and fix things after. thats a lot of supplies to use on this. Not to mention all the meds they will need and food. Triage comes to mind then.
Obviously in everyday world I would have no problems slapping one on someone. If fact I just got 3 to put in my car 1st aid bag.
First Things first in a SHTF situation.
Triage is useless - unless someone else is going to take the casualty off your hands. Assume that no-one is coming when you call 999/112.
Yes it will be you that has to fix things.
The decision is do you treat or do you let them die?
Yes it may well be a lot of supplies. Actually thats what they are for.
Saving for a rainy day means using it when its raining !!
RE: A good haemostatic supply - Aliciahelfan - 13 September 2016
For deep open wounds with hemorrhaging I was taught to immediately apply pressure to the wound with a kerlix roll, apply a tourniquet if the wound is on a limb, pull the kerlix back and try to identify the source of the bleed. If able to ID the bleed, apply quick clot or hemcon, and then use kerlix to pack towards the bleed, filling the entire wound cavity. After filling the wound cavity, apply a pressure bandage over the packed wound, or use an ace wrap.These types of circumstances occur at any time so keeping of home Medical Equipment is safe.
RE: A good haemostatic supply - harrypalmer - 13 September 2016
Anti clotting agents are fantastic on a battle field where you'll have a medical team to clean the gunk out of the would when the casualty is safe but...not so easy for a poorly trained wannabe medic prepper to do.
For the average prepper who's not being shot at your best bet is direct pressure, maybe a tourniquet and something like an Israeli dressing if appropriate for the wound. Don't use the powder, the last thing you want is some of the powder blowing into your eyes.
Oh yea, do a first aid course or three.
RE: A good haemostatic supply - Mortblanc - 13 September 2016
I keep the stuff on hand due to the meds I take for my heart.
I am on an anti-clotting agent so a cut that one would normally place a pressure dressing on and make a quick trip to urgent care for 10-15 stitches might bleed me out by the time i arrived.
I keep a package of Quick Clot and several pressure dressings in each of my vehicles due to that bing the place they would most likely be needed for roadway accidents and such. Plus, if I am injured badly and on my own I will be headed for the vehicle first thing anyway.
SHTF, it depends on the situation. In a temporary situation like grid down or flood using QC on a bad injury that will have attention in a few hours only makes sense.
If you are ten years into the Apocalypse trying to carry a book to Alcatraz, not so much.
RE: A good haemostatic supply - harrypalmer - 13 September 2016
http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/haemostatics/
Worth a read.
Adrenaline is also worth looking at for controlling blood loss and may easier to source, certainly a lot cheaper.
RE: A good haemostatic supply - CharlesHarris - 13 September 2016
HP is right on, as either Celox or Quik-Clot are messy to get out of a wound outside a hospital environment.
Here are a couple useful links:
http://www.psow.org/Tactical%20EMS%20Trends.ppt
https://www.scribd.com/doc/296734818/1005-Hemorrhage-control-ppt
https://www.narescue.com/combat-application-tourniquet-c-a-t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxwjHzTpXV4
RE: A good haemostatic supply - Devonian - 13 September 2016
I thought is was pretty rare (difficult) to get hold of the loose powdered stuff these days, as all of the modern anti-clotting agents are generally supplied embedded within a gauze to help eliminate the issue of having to extract the powered from deep within wounds, but still providing the anti-clotting benefits in a clean easy to apply (use) package?
RE: A good haemostatic supply - Mortblanc - 14 September 2016
You are correct.
The trauma packs are available from almost any first aid supply outlet and only run $15-$20.
Since it is not something one would use on a daily basis, and only for dire emergencies, the price is not unreasonable as a life saving tool.