maintenance in the field

[Midnitemo]

Ahhh...the wonderful smell of bore solvent and gun oil....emptied the gun cabinet today for a periodic mass clean....not seen a lot of use lately!!!happily they were still beautifully clean and well oiled..no rust to be seen....just wondering what you guy's with gun's are planning for maintainence in the field should you need to bug out...are there any new wonder products out there i need to be aware of ?...have bought a 12 gauge bore snake(at home i use rods/brushes and patches) and various small size gun oils and solvents/patches..my cache has a small kit in it....no aerosols though as i've found them unreliable in the past

[Mortblanc]

A proper SHTF/BUG OUT gun should require zero maintenance for 2,000-5,000 rounds. Now consider that your basic ammo stash is 200 rounds and unless you come across more ammo than you are allowed to own you will never be truly concerned with cleaning a SHTF gun unless you drop it in a mud hole.

As soon as you break down that firearm to clean it you are unarmed!

There are several sporting firearms on the market that meet that 5,000round capability. The Bennelli, Beretta, Mossberg, Savage and Remington pump shotguns being just a few.

There are also many surplus firearms available that meet that capability.

Most shooters over-clean their guns and put more wear on them in cleaning than they do in shooting. In a SHTF situation the firearm becomes a tool, not to be coddled or require special care. The stock will get scarred, the metal finish will wear, a spot of rust will appear after you forage about in the rain. Wipe it down and get on with life, you bought it to use it.

On my long range guns I never clean the bores unless I am being plagued with copper fouling. Cleaning the bore changes the point of impact for the first couple of shots and in a long range rifle that first "cold bore" shot is critical.

My travel kit?? A three piece brass rod, an old tooth brush and a small flask of synthetic motor oil.

[Midnitemo]

its the dreaded rust in our sodden salty environment that concerns me and yes its a tool but i like to keep my stuff tip top and get the most useage and wear out of my guns(i don't view them as a disposable item)....i agree you should be able to go extended periods with little or no maintainence if you have too but i'd rather not for the sake of a little bit of kit.

[CharlesHarris]

I just finished re-reading "No Surrender, My Thirty-Year War" by Lt. Hiroo Onoda, an In telligence Officer of the Imperial Japanesze Army, who held out as an evader on Lubang Island in the Phillipine Islands until February 20, 1974. He maintained his Type 99 rifle by wiping it with palm oil and hanging it out of each of rats, on vines strung over the fire. Ammunition was stored in glass food jars hidden in caves, covered with stones. He fashioned ammunition pouches from a pair of villagers discarded rubber sneakers, placing cartridges in cloth sacks tied with string and pulling the top of the rubber pouch over the opening, fastening with a metal hook to keep the contents dry. He normally carried five rounds in the rifle, 5 rounds in his shirt pocket, and 50 rounds in pouches in case he got into a firefight. His usual tactic was to fire one shot to scare the villagers and then retreat into the jungle and disappear.

He originally retreated into the jungle in 1945 with 300 regular 7.7mm rifle rounds and 600 rounds of rimmed 7.7 machinegun ammunition, equivalent to .303 British Mk8z. On these he filed the rims so that they could be loaded singly and fired in the Type 99 rifle for hunting purposes. Misfired rounds were pulled down and the powder used to start fires using a magnifying glass. When he came out of the jungle in 1974 he still had about 400 rounds cached or on his person. On average he fired only 16-20 rounds per year to shoot cows for meat, which he dried, or to scare away villagers who got too close. When he came out of the jungle in 1974 he estimated that he still had a 20-year supply of ammunition left. Phillipine Army armourers who inventoried and inspected his kit indicated that his rifle was well maintained and in serviceable condition.

Prior to WW2 the normal regime for cleaning was much the same as it had been during the blackpowder era, scrubbing with soap and water, preferably boiling, then wiping with plain mineral oil. Sperm (whale) oil was preferred, but today any food grade pure mineral oil will do, and is colorless, odorless, tasteless and nontoxic.

There is nothing miraculous or magic about modern gun cleaners and lubricants. The technology has existed for a long time. The hype is all about marketing. Any good grade of light machine oil used on fishing reels, sewing machines or watches is excellent. As for bore cleaner, an effective all-purpose cleaner-lubricant-preservative meeting the performance requirements of US military bore cleaner Mil-C-372B can be mixed at home from common hardware store ingredients, by mixing equal parts by liguid volume of deodorized, acid-free kerosene (US K1); Dexron automatic transmission fluid; aliphatic mineral spirits (aka Stoddard Solvent) and acetone. More info: http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd...ds_red.htm

[Mortblanc]

There was a time, in the southern states after the Civil War during "Occupation" that guns were hidden in the lard barrel.

I have read of the American pioneers using bear oil to treat their guns, as well as almost every other form of grease and linseed oil was a standard stock finish right up to the adoption of the EBR as military hardware.

During WW2 the soviets used sunflower seed oil extensively on their full auto hardware. It did not freeze in the extreme temperatures.

I remember keeping a 1 quart can of 10/30 motor oil for slathering over our M2 Brownings and the cloud of oil spray it created.

Many folks are now simply using the synthetic motor oils and they do very well as both cleaner and lube. As I said before, I keep it in my kit and use it often.

It will probably be the most common lube SHTF, since it can be drained from all those abandoned vehicle crankcases.

One of my favorites on the workbench for the past 30 years, has been a blend of 1qt synthetic 5w-20/1qt transmission fluid/8 ounces STP. It works well as both lube and protectant. When you mix it up you will have enough to last for 50 years. When I make a batch I usually place it in empty dish soap bottles and spread it around. It is about the slickest stuff you will ever put on a piece of metal.

[Timelord]

I suppose frequency of cleaning will depend on your local conditions and how temperate your temperate zone is. Really cold climes will not experience rust to any significant degree, as neither will dry climates. For the UK, then we have the perfect environment for rust and even in warm summers, there is still a reasonable amount of moisture in the air, so after firing and the barrel heating up, there is the chance of condensation. This is especially so in more mediocre temperatures. just transferring the gun between gun cases, or from vehicles or from one heated building to another non heated one or in/outdoors, can cause condensation on the internal workings of the gun. This should be watched out for and will then necessitate a clean & lube as soon as practicable. The frequency of this will as I said depend on your particular environment at the time.

Additionally, the type of gun and the nature of the propellant will also have an impact. Expedient powders will need regular cleaning.

Living for periods in the field will necessitate regular cleaning as dirt and liquids may enter the gun. A gun that is good for 5000 rounds in factory tests or for police forces to use occasionally before putting back in an armoury is not necessarily going to function for 5000 rounds in extended field use scenarios.

Many guns have manufactured weaknesses due to compromise designs based on keeping the price down. One poor quality part can stop the functioning of the whole gun. This is quite common and especially so in more modern times where we live many years after the major 20th century World Wars with the robustness of design learned then. It is now a throw away material society and even militaries are compromised in these same ways. Fortunately for them they have a whole logistical supply chain and buddies close by to back them up. For most preppers this does not hold out.
Before buying any gun, check out the enthusiasts forums and also the guns combat heritage. make sure the modern gun is the same manufactured design quality as the historical one you may read about. Often they are not! I had a simple failure on a Winchester lever action carbine last week. The gun was useless after only 35 shots. It appeared in almost new condition and after online research, I found it was a common problem - this has led me to uncover that Winchester is not alone. Do not heed the poster who says he has never had a problem with his particular gun and so they are the best thing out there. He might just be one of the lucky ones. They don't all fail - obviously... Read the forums and after a while you will get a general idea of the strengths and weaknesses of any particular gun - or any other item of kit come to that.

A gun with a known potential fault is an unreliable gun. I would not want to have an unreliable gun for any survival scenario. Better not to have it in the first place and then to make alternative arrangements for self protection - like a different one that is reliable - Simples stuff. lol. TL.

[Midnitemo]

I had a modern winchester 94ae in .357/38spl i absolutely loved this gun and it performed faultlessly whilst in my possesion but i concur with TL my late 90's model compared to a 1920's chambered in 44/40 was very flimsy with more plastic on it than i would have expected, deffo built down to a price.

[Timelord]

It was the same model of gun that broke the "carrier" (lifter) last week. this is a very common problem. possibly 30% of them failing. This makes the model unreliable. It is a shame. Even a new replacement will have the same shadow lingering over it. it might fail - It might not?? I would rather not have the gun with this possibility. I will be looking into getting these carriers machined from a block of a molybedenum alloy steel. The rest of the gun and the concept is great, so I do not wish to discard it yet if I can have a superior part made. There are other models with problems too and other manufacturers etc etc :-(

[CharlesHarris]

The proliferation of powdered metal parts to replace machined, or even stamped parts, leads to premature failures. Serious shooters are willing to pay more for an old gun of sound design, in serviceable condition, which "works", than for a shiny new model hyped by the magazine pundits, which doesn't.

I would not trade my M1 Garand, Ernst Appel Mauser stalking rifle and Smith & Wesson Third Model Hand Ejector .45 DA military and Winchester Model 12, 12-bore pump shotgun for a whole C130 load of current production plastic and pot metal Evil Black Rifles.

[Midnitemo]

i'm thinking of joining my local gun club, my second gun purchased would be an underlever in .357/38spl probably a Marlin 1894cs but i here the rossi's are all metal and made in a more authentic traditional way.....need to see/handle one in the flesh before i could choose.