Farm Animal Conundrum

[Devonian]

(1 May 2014, 20:52)Tarrel Wrote: We also have a woodland, and have had some success in keeping chickens behind electric netting. The main reason we have them is to clear and fertilise areas of open ground ready for replanting with new trees.

We have 50m of specialist electric poultry netting, which gives us an enclosed area of around 150 square metres. The energiser is powered off a 75Ah leisure battery, which lasts about a month before recharging. The coop is sufficient for 12 hens but small enough to be easily moved around. Its door is controlled with an electric door opener on a timer and light sensor.

We have 10 hens and it takes them about a month to reduce all the weeds in their area to bare ground, depositing a good level of fertiliser in the process! After the month we move them on to a new area. So, they are basically free ranging.

The technique with the fence is to bait it (we use beef dripping). Predators are attracted to the fence by the bait and experience the shock. Apparently they then perceive it as am infinite barrier and have no way of gauging how far it extends up or down, so they don't try to climb it or burrow under it. Our dog tried it when we first got it, and he now treats it with the utmost respect! The main predators we have are foxes and pine martens (which are generally more aggressive than foxes). Touch wood, so far so good, even though our neighbouring farmer has lost several lambs to foxes.

We bought the hens at point of lay, and they a now producing 7-8 eggs a day. We're selling them at the door, and basically need to sell 2 x boxes of six a week to cover the costs of feed, etc.

Highly recommended if you have woodland.

Thanks for that and some good information in there, though the problem I have is the woods are located in deepest darkest Devon, about a 25 minute drive from where I live and sometimes it may be 3 or 4 weeks before I get to the woods!

[Tartar Horde]

Lets take the "survivors" scenario, a world of severely reduced human population, including Farmers etc. The amount of domesticated animals that will escape into the countryside I think will be huge. Devonians point about dairy Cows is right, but I believe only to a certain point. Is it true that 100% of all dairy cattle will die if not milked, I'm not sure myself as nature has a way of overcoming such things, even if the Friesian dairy cow dies out there are numerous other breeds in small farms that are more hardy and would survive to breed in the wild. It won't take too many generations for these animals to start reverting to their earlier types just like feral Hogs do. Highland cattle are an obvious contender for thriving, as are Pigs and sheep. The American Buffalo would do well and there are quite a few in Zoos and wildlife parks, there could be all manner of animals that find our mild climate and good grass growing land a paradise without humans. There are downsides to every scenario though including the escape of all the big cats and Bears, not to mention Hyenas and the like, all very capable of surviving our winters, and without humans it will be a supermarket for them, imagine all the food for them, food that doesn't know what a Lion or Tiger is.

[Scythe13]

TH, you've highlighted one of my other thoughts.

We were at Longleat a little while ago and the guy on the talking tour system said about how the lions have adapted and are thriving in our climate...GULP! Time to get that FAC and SGC sent off, if you have not already!

There will possibly be those nutty-animal-rights groups that will use a SHTF scenario to set zoo animals free. Granted many will not last through the first heavy winter. But there will be some that will thrive.

One issue I have wondered about, as much as I agree about the animals getting out and surviving well, then reverting to original/feral ways, I see one problem. Them actually escaping in the first place. More likely, in my eyes, is the chance that people will go into a field, close the gate behind them, and kill everything in the field for food. Either that or something along those lines. Because they're already captive, the chances of them being able to escape is low.

It would make more sense to start knocking down the barriers to their escape (I sound like one of those animal rights nutters now). Unless they are allowed to escape, I do not see a way they can go feral and survive. If they stay in their fields, with fences and gates, they're sitting ducks and will be simply picked off by 'the horde' that are passing through. For this reason, I think it may well be in the interest of the prepper to assist the escapology-act of certain species into the wild.

[Devonian]

(1 May 2014, 21:57)Tartar Horde Wrote: Lets take the "survivors" scenario, a world of severely reduced human population, including Farmers etc. The amount of domesticated animals that will escape into the countryside I think will be huge. Devonians point about dairy Cows is right, but I believe only to a certain point. Is it true that 100% of all dairy cattle will die if not milked, I'm not sure myself as nature has a way of overcoming such things, even if the Friesian dairy cow dies out there are numerous other breeds in small farms that are more hardy and would survive to breed in the wild. It won't take too many generations for these animals to start reverting to their earlier types just like feral Hogs do. Highland cattle are an obvious contender for thriving, as are Pigs and sheep. The American Buffalo would do well and there are quite a few in Zoos and wildlife parks, there could be all manner of animals that find our mild climate and good grass growing land a paradise without humans. There are downsides to every scenario though including the escape of all the big cats and Bears, not to mention Hyenas and the like, all very capable of surviving our winters, and without humans it will be a supermarket for them, imagine all the food for them, food that doesn't know what a Lion or Tiger is.

I think we are all pretty much in agreement here, which has to be a first

Just looking at cows, I think the Friesian dairy cow is at huge risk as it is effectively an organic milk machine and is not likely to be suited to living Free Range. However some (many?) will still survive as will be kept and milked, either by farmers or survivors.

Rare breeds are different and I think they have the potential to thrive if (and its a big IF) they are not killed and butchered by the hoards.

With regards to zoo animals, I think that if freed, they would all thrive. A couple of nights ago I was watching a rerun of an old BBC programme which was showing the diversity of the wildlife within central London, and as some who doesn't visit London I was amazed at some of the wildlife that is present. Now we all expect Rats; Foxes; Pigeons; Deers (in the parks) etc, but some of the other well established wildlife really surprised me, including:

- Several colonies of a poisonous (but not lethal) full size scorpions, with some colonies having in excess of 3000 scorpions!

- Pigeon eating Pelican's in St James Park - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b4TU_R7J3c

- Huge flocks (6,000+ in some single flocks) of ring neck parakeets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4P_NhFlb5w

- Turtles which are thriving in canals and taking things like ducklings

- Red Signal Crayfish which are reach epidemic proportions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkqquECLRpk

[Mortblanc]

http://www.chron.com/sports/outdoors/art...685490.php

---

750,000 taken each year and the numbers are still growing.

[Scythe13]

DEV, why do you think the Parakeet is on the General License for pest control? London! haha

[bigpaul]

no dairy cattle will survive, if they are not milked they will die a slow, lingering and painful death.(my wife was a herdswoman).

[Scythe13]

(2 May 2014, 09:21)bigpaul Wrote: no dairy cattle will survive, if they are not milked they will die a slow, lingering and painful death.(my wife was a herdswoman).

It might make sense to do a sneaky milking session in the middle of the night, post event. That'll keep a few alive and reduce your chances of getting caught.

[Binnie]

(2 May 2014, 09:21)bigpaul Wrote: no dairy cattle will survive, if they are not milked they will die a slow, lingering and painful death.(my wife was a herdswoman).

never heard of that one, and i used to assist with a dairy at the end of my road.

Sick cattle, especially those on medication were stopped from producing milk, and subsequently were not milked?

[Scythe13]

From a little internet searching, I've got an answer about the milking cows dying thing....

"Your question was forwarded to me. Whether or not cows will die if they're not milked depends on two factors: How much they're milking at the time, and how fast milking ceases. If a cow is only producing 20 pounds per day or less per day, she can be "dried off" (caused to cease milk production) simply by stopping milking her. That happens to almost every cow every year, and is a normal part of the "have a calf--produce a lot of milk per day---milk less and less per day--dry off--have a calf" cycle that's a cow's life. Done right, there's no problem at all.

However, if a cow is producing much more than 20 pounds per day, stopping milking her in one fell swoop will cause severe udder stress including inflammation, and the more she's milking the greater the chance that this stress and the resulting infection could kill her. Unfortunately, we have first-hand experience about this in this region (45 miles south of Montreal) since a few years ago we had a devastating ice storm that killed electric power for several days. One farmer who couldn't get a generator lost a bunch of high producing cows when he wasn't able to milk them. (He had about 150 cows, and milking by hand was out of the question.)

So a short answer is yes--under some conditions.

Everett D. Thomas
William H. Miner Agricultural Research Institute "