Surviving 10, 20 or more years after SHTF

[John]

Whilst I appreciate what you say, especially Charles with his links.
One or two things.
What I am looking at is where there is no outside help, we will all be in same boat.
Though as I said I appreciate what was said in the links.

Personal view, 10 -20 months is short term.
If you survive and you are at your 'retreat' and have crops and animals etc. and survive then you have a start for longer term. If not and then find out at the end of 10 -20 months that it is not going back to normal and decided to start planting crops take time to grow and you need to cover for bad yields and failures.
So you short term prep up to say 3-5 years but start on longer term after say 12/18 months.

One thing I do believe is that once we do collapse, whatever reason, then we will not get back to normal or anywhere near it, probably not even back later than 15th/17th century and may be beyond that. Other thing is that we will regress, no doubt about that, if we can regress in a planned way quickly then the sooner we reach the bottom the sooner we may start the long pull up but consider that this is a finite planet we live on and all the easily accessible raw materials, mineral, metal ore and fossil fuels will take millions if not billions of years to get back to what they where when we started to mine them and may be humans will not be around then.

But again and help appreciated even though most of you will not agree with or see where I am going
John