Technological suggestion

[Mortblanc]

People are not going to drop dead because the electric goes off.

They might be uncomfortable, whine, cry and swear at Borris but it will only be in the case of rare medical needs that people will drop dead and the population collapse when the power goes out and that is only in the case of a sudden and total collapse of the total grid, which now consists of a good deal of wind and solar power contributions.

There will now always be some amount of power available for transmission.

More likely is the sudden SHORTAGE of power. People will be rationed power for certain hours daily. This is already the normal system in much of the world where power generation is limited.

You even had power rationing in the UK some years back I recall, and here in the States we see power rationing during high usage periods or when generation is limited.

No one drops dead when they flip the switch and there is no power.

What will happen is that people will grow accustomed to the limited resource and plan around it. They will charge batteries when they do have power, turn to small scale solar, hi-jack the solar panels on their own roofs that used to feed the grid for their immediate use and turn to alternate lighting sources.

Just like they did in the rural areas back before the war. Most of your country and mine were not totally electrified until after WW2. Gas and electric mains were city things. Yep I am old enough to remember visiting people in the rural areas that had no power, not because they failed to feed the meter, but because there was no grid access.

People will be making lamps from jelly jars and strips of rag, and candles from bits of the children's crayons, but after the whining dies down people get resourceful, pat themselves on the back for reinventing the candle, and carry on with limited lighting and improvised cooking.

Now one would actually expect a lot of houses and flat clusters burning down due to foolish use of those paraffin and candle lamps, not to mention the smell of rancid bacon fat burning to light some ones domain.

Even us preppers are on "limited duration emergency backup" and would find the situation "disruptive".

[kellys_eye]

Quote:KE do you not realize that the power tool batteries are simply clusters of 18650 lithium power cells?

Well, I could purchase a load of 18650's, a spot welder and stacking caps to make a working bank and then 3D print a suitable case before designing a suitable charging station....

or I could buy an Aldi battery and charger.

Guess which one I went for?

@Mortblanc - without electricity and even with limited electricity there will be a LOT of unrest as people can't acccess cash/pay for stuff, tills and card readers don't work, petrol pumps stop and freezers fail (legal requirements to keep frozen goods at minimum temperature or it's 'spoiled') etc......

I reckon there would be enough disruption to cause riots as the 'usual class' (entitled) seek to get what they think they're owed - and probably take advantage of the fact that burglar alarms are down.....

The only things safe would be work boots and fathers day cards.

[bigpaul]

(24 June 2021, 19:55)Mortblanc Wrote: People are not going to drop dead because the electric goes off.

They might be uncomfortable, whine, cry and swear at Borris but it will only be in the case of rare medical needs that people will drop dead and the population collapse when the power goes out and that is only in the case of a sudden and total collapse of the total grid, which now consists of a good deal of wind and solar power contributions.

There will now always be some amount of power available for transmission.

More likely is the sudden SHORTAGE of power. People will be rationed power for certain hours daily. This is already the normal system in much of the world where power generation is limited.

You even had power rationing in the UK some years back I recall, and here in the States we see power rationing during high usage periods or when generation is limited.

No one drops dead when they flip the switch and there is no power.

What will happen is that people will grow accustomed to the limited resource and plan around it. They will charge batteries when they do have power, turn to small scale solar, hi-jack the solar panels on their own roofs that used to feed the grid for their immediate use and turn to alternate lighting sources.

Just like they did in the rural areas back before the war. Most of your country and mine were not totally electrified until after WW2. Gas and electric mains were city things. Yep I am old enough to remember visiting people in the rural areas that had no power, not because they failed to feed the meter, but because there was no grid access.

People will be making lamps from jelly jars and strips of rag, and candles from bits of the children's crayons, but after the whining dies down people get resourceful, pat themselves on the back for reinventing the candle, and carry on with limited lighting and improvised cooking.

Now one would actually expect a lot of houses and flat clusters burning down due to foolish use of those paraffin and candle lamps, not to mention the smell of rancid bacon fat burning to light some ones domain.

Even us preppers are on "limited duration emergency backup" and would find the situation "disruptive".

I dont agree Mort, might be different in the US but in the UK everything is electrical, light, heat, cooking-nobody will be cooking if there is no electric, freezers will stop and food will go off, most water supplies are electrically fed so no electric no mains water.
so yes, no electric and people will start dying, maybe not immediately but after a short time they will.

[Mortblanc]

You are probably correct about the effect on the average middle class English family, they are all going to die, but what about the others.

1/4 of the population of GB was born outside the Island. They came to you from Pakistan, India, Africa, the West Indies, Romania and points east. They grew up in mud huts and slums and 3rd world conditions and they know how to survive in places where no one has ever seen a light switch or had a solid bowel movement.

They will be cooking on campfires built in tin pots on their window stills within 24 hours.

And when the food runs out they will be the first ones to start walking.

[bigpaul]

again I dont agree Mort, the ones in mud huts and slums are still there, they didnt have the money to pay human traffickers to get them into and across Europe. the ones that are here managed to access thousands of pounds to pay the traffickers. most came here because they are economic migrants looking for a better life and they settled in places like London, Birmingham, Manchester, Bolton where others of their kind live, not some sleepy rural village.

[Lightspeed]

(26 June 2021, 09:09)bigpaul Wrote: again I dont agree Mort, the ones in mud huts and slums are still there, they didnt have the money to pay human traffickers to get them into and across Europe. the ones that are here managed to access thousands of pounds to pay the traffickers. most came here because they are economic migrants looking for a better life and they settled in places like London, Birmingham, Manchester, Bolton where others of their kind live, not some sleepy rural village.

BP the point is that these are true survivors. Given zero resources they will survive through complete selfishness, experience and cunning.

They will not die out just because the grid fails.

[bigpaul]

(26 June 2021, 09:30)Lightspeed Wrote:

(26 June 2021, 09:09)bigpaul Wrote: again I dont agree Mort, the ones in mud huts and slums are still there, they didnt have the money to pay human traffickers to get them into and across Europe. the ones that are here managed to access thousands of pounds to pay the traffickers. most came here because they are economic migrants looking for a better life and they settled in places like London, Birmingham, Manchester, Bolton where others of their kind live, not some sleepy rural village.

BP the point is that these are true survivors. Given zero resources they will survive through complete selfishness, experience and cunning.

They will not die out just because the grid fails.

no they arent, they got here because they had help, albeit paid help, and most end up in squalid camps long before they get here.
I've had conversations about the horde theory before, its pure fiction, without resources they wont get further than a few miles.

[LAC]

You will also mostly find in those type of communities, they will centre themselves around the ones who hold the most resources in their community. They are obliged and expected to provide assistance to the rest of their community if they have more, very much a socialist type of system, the most successful and most prudent often punished for those very attributes. Their strength is not necessarily in their numbers but in the strength of their networks, and ironically they would most likely fair better than most indigenous Brits in a SHTF situation, simply because many in large cities now no longer have those types of networks or they are somewhat diminished.

[bigpaul]

in those communities of which you speak they would not be able to leave even if they wished to without permission from the elders.

[LAC]

(28 June 2021, 08:30)bigpaul Wrote: in those communities of which you speak they would not be able to leave even if they wished to without permission from the elders.

Yes that's mostly right, most are attached to the communities they live and no I couldn't see them moving en masse. Who knows what government might decide in an SHTF situation though.