These companies oppose gmo labelling...

[BDG]

Because of the negative connotations associated with it, it detracts and clutters branding and they more than likely have the attitude that it is the same as what is in non GM products and so not relevant. Should lard be labeled as 'HIGH FAT CONTENT'.

In all reality, it is not good beef or beer or eggs or fresh stuff that is going to contain GM, it is junk food and processed crap.

Better the issue should be stuff should be labeled as Junk Food and Processed Crap.

[Tartar Horde]

my real concern regarding GM food is the power over the worlds/our food production. The major GM companies, Monsanto etc are focussing on seed research with a view to controlling the worlds grain production. They are massively focussing on the distribution of these "terminator" seeds that do not turn into fertile ones, so farmers can't put seed away for next years crop, thay have to buy monsanto seeds and the chemicals to spray onto the crops to ensure a crop. Once any company/ies have the power over the basic food stuff of the world they can control those countries far more effectively than through monetary routes. Giving such organisations the power to control the very food we need to suvive will be in my view disasterous for the freedom of our species. The arguments regarding the safety of such foods are a legitimate worry, but I believe those arguments are a smoke screen for the real reason d'etre behind the development of GM crops which is global food control in the hands of an industrial elite

[BDG]

(10 November 2012, 11:44)Tartar Horde Wrote: The major GM companies, Monsanto etc are focussing on seed research with a view to controlling the worlds grain production. They are massively focussing on the distribution of these "terminator" seeds that do not turn into fertile ones, so farmers can't put seed away for next years crop,

Do you have a source for this? Monsanto said over a decade ago that while they have the technology to do this, they will never develop a commercial product that will do that. A company was going to develop this commercially. Monsanto bought them and cancelled the project.

(10 November 2012, 11:44)Tartar Horde Wrote: thay have to buy monsanto seeds and the chemicals to spray onto the crops to ensure a crop.

Or they could buy seeds from one of the other Bio-Ag companies...

(10 November 2012, 11:44)Tartar Horde Wrote: Once any company/ies have the power over the basic food stuff of the world they can control those countries far more effectively than through monetary routes.

The Bio-Ag companies that people buy seed from now are the companies they are going to be buying from in the future, Monsanto, BASF, Pioneer, Dow, Bayer and Syngenta. These companies already have and have had for years control over basic food stuffs.

If they wanted to exert control, they could do it without GM.

(10 November 2012, 11:44)Tartar Horde Wrote: Giving such organisations the power to control the very food we need to suvive will be in my view disasterous for the freedom of our species. The arguments regarding the safety of such foods are a legitimate worry, but I believe those arguments are a smoke screen for the real reason d'etre behind the development of GM crops which is global food control in the hands of an industrial elite

Such control already exists. Those who run the Bio-ag companies, the oil refineries, the chemical manufacture plants, the transport and distribution network - any or all could exert what ever control they like at the moment.

[Tartar Horde]

I rest my case

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Which is why as preppers it behooves us to grow plants from which we can save seed and sow the next year. The drive towards global food domination is relentless, but people are resisting, I know this from my frequent visits to India. Monsanto had a HUGE public relations drive in India to convince MILLIONS of farmers to use their seeds and fertlisers. This proved disasterous for the rural Indian farmers and Thousands have commited suicide by drinking the chemicals Monsanto forced them to buy. They found they could'nt sow the seed as it was infertile, so the major part of the farmers income was spent on buying GM modified seed and the associated fertilizers and chemicals needed to grow this "super" seed. They are fighting back by growing the tried and tested strains their ancestors used to grow. Food production should always be in the hands of the people.

[BDG]

(11 November 2012, 20:43)Tartar Horde Wrote: Which is why as preppers it behooves us to grow plants from which we can save seed and sow the next year.

Almost everything I grow, I can get good seed from. The stuff I grow that are F1's are normally things that would be far to fussy to grow as a none F1 - eg cucumbers, melons.

I do save a bit of seed year on year, but mainly more to experiment. I keep lettuce seed from a lettuce type I grow each year, otherwise I have come across nothing that performs so well that I want to regularly save seed from it.

(11 November 2012, 20:43)Tartar Horde Wrote: The drive towards global food domination is relentless, but people are resisting, I know this from my frequent visits to India. Monsanto had a HUGE public relations drive in India to convince MILLIONS of farmers to use their seeds and fertlisers. This proved disasterous for the rural Indian farmers and Thousands have commited suicide by drinking the chemicals Monsanto forced them to buy.

So you work with Indian agriculturalists or have been to India on holiday a few times? How did Monsanto force people to buy chemicals? Did they threaten their kids? Did the chase them to the store with guns? Or was it because of the HUGE public relations drive (we normally call that advertising when we are not trying to be sensationalist).?

(11 November 2012, 20:43)Tartar Horde Wrote: They found they could'nt sow the seed as it was infertile, so the major part of the farmers income was spent on buying GM modified seed and the associated fertilizers and chemicals needed to grow this "super" seed.

***********READ THIS PARAGRAPH PLEASE TO SAVE ME REPEATING MYSELF IN ANOTHER POST****************

As I said in my previous post, do you have a source for this, as Monsanto said in 1999 that they would never commercialism this technology. A company called Delta Land and Pine did have a patent on this technology and was in the process of creating a commercial product. Monsanto bough Delta Land and Pine in 2007 to stop this from happening.

******READ THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT********

(11 November 2012, 20:43)Tartar Horde Wrote: They are fighting back by growing the tried and tested strains their ancestors used to grow. Food production should always be in the hands of the people.

Good for them. Hopefully they will overcome the problems that caused massive levels of farmers suicides before the introduction of GM crops, illiteracy amongst Indian farmers meaning they could not read the instructions for the use of agricultural chemicals meaning they used several years worth of fertilisers, herbicides and pesticides thinking the effect would be proportional when in fact it was finite, the problems of having farms - the majority of farmers are on less than 3 acres, a downturn in the urban economy pushing a lot of city dwellers to the land that they did not know how to farm and the poor government response to changes within the agricultural sector.

http://rajpatel.org/2009/10/27/stuffed-and-starved/
http://www.macroscan.com/anl/mar08/pdf/F...icides.pdf
http://aasrasuicideprevention.blogspot.c...ysngo.html (while this is a blog, it is fully referenced)
http://www.ifpri.org/sites/default/files...p00808.pdf
http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v27/n1...109-9.html
http://www.igidr.ac.in/pdf/publication/WP-2007-014.pdf

Now, what you wrote did come across what I have seen copied and pasted many, many times in ill informed blogs. Maybe you have been hood winked by a fancy web site, maybe you have been sold something untrue but easy to believe, but the only - and mean ONLY - true fact you have posted with regards to the Indian farming situation is that pesticides and herbicides have been used to cause suicide.

The reason for this is because they were on hand. These farmers did not have guns with which to shoot themselves or cars and hosepipes with which to gas themselves in. They had poison and they drunk it.

Sorry if I am coming across like a dick, but if I let it slide, some one else may repost it somewhere else and so on and so on and then more people will think 'oh, it must be true' when it quite plainly is not.

With regards to people having been in in control of their own food supply, any control was given up 10,000 years ago when we decided to live in large groups and have and develop agriculture. Large groups need systems of administration, a leader and a power structure develops.

The jury is out on why we decided to live in large groups and develop agriculture, but it is thought it was to worship a divinity or to brew beer. I err on the side of beer.