Bugging Out Of The UK

[Mortblanc]

That seems an excellent idea.

The difference between an immigrant, a migrant and a refugee is timing and the amount of cash in your pocket. And just what might one think one roaming the countryside with a BOB would be? A refugee in ones own land?

And it might seem strange to the average "English only" speaking person, but a large number of people in this world speak more than one language. All those people working in the hotels, tourist traps and at the call centers speaking to you with a slight accent do not speak English when they go home.

Even your former colony of Canada is officially a bilingual (English/French) nation and my own country has Spanish as the primary language of nearly 20% of the population! All government documents are printed in both English and Spanish. Even us old farts living well into the interior and away from the southern border have learned enough Spanish to get by in an emergency.

Being a nation built by immigrants we are used to that. During WW2 almost every American unit had several German or Italian speakers whose parents had immigrated. After the war we were flooded with eastern European refugees fleeing the Russians. We now call their children and grandchildren "citizens".

There is a whole world out there past the end of your street.

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Then, perhaps my attitude is due to living in a large nation.

We are routinely relocated and displaced for thousand of miles during job promotions or transitions.

Ten years ago I made the discovery that there was nothing left for me in my old home, and I migrated the distance between London and Berlin to a new life. I just never left my resident nation.

[Devonian]

MB, I don't think you really appreciate the extent of the cultural differences between the UK and mainland Europe.

In fact in many parts of the UK immigration isn't actually an issue, yes it's a problem that severely affects the large conurbations, but in the provinces and rural areas immigration (from outside of the UK) is not really an issue at all.

The UK is pretty unique when compared and contrasted against the rest of Europe and in many ways our culture is more similar and more closely aligned to that of the US/Canada than it is to most of Europe. Yes London maybe more similar to Paris or Rome, but what % of the population of London can actually trace its heritage back to London or for that matter any other part of the UK, trust me it's a small minority!

[bigpaul]

its not a good idea to be an outsider in a foreign land following a SHTF event, even if you are poor you will probably be richer than they are and guess who will be looted first? yep, "that foreigner that moved in down the road"....YOU!!

[Mortblanc]

I understand completely that there are differences between cultures.

I also understand that sitting and rotting in the spot you are because you are afraid to leave or simply adore the view out the window is not surviving!

Terrell was asking a question about a time when things were so bad that one had to leave. No second choice, you have to leave.

Rather than embrace the prospect of leaving the present comfort zone, everyone here started giving reasons not to leave!

So apparently the answer to the question is that most would prefer to sit and die right where they are than to leave their comfort zone.

THAT IS NOT SURVIVING

[Devonian]

No.

I think the issue is no-one can foresee any reason or situation which would call for a bug from the UK.

Yes you may find you need to move away from where you are to another site or another part of the country altogether, but as for bugging out of the country as a whole, because it would be safer on the other side of the English Channel, then I really can't see a situation where that would be needed??

[bigpaul]

I think given the situation at the moment the other side of the channel, and Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal have their own problems too, bugging out of the UK probably wouldn't improve anything, and especially if the situation got worse which it could well do, it could be "jumping from the frying pan into the fire". I think Devonian is right.

[Midnitemo]

I have lived all over this country in my 50 years I'm not convinced that the Wirral will be my final home....I have no fear or trepidation about moving away any direction any distance in the UK but I just can't see any gain in going over sea's to disadvantage myself...I say again contamination and perhaps if the UK was the only victim of the event that's about it and unless you got out before contamination started the EU probably wouldn't let you in anyway , were equally cursed and blessed with English as our mother tongue blessed because it's the universal language that most official thing's air traffic/maritime etc are conducted in, cursed because it's fairly widely spoken that we as a nation don't feel the need to learn anyone elses language (lazy and arrogant I guess) I'm fluent in French and speak a fair bit of Spanish

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oh and were not generally much loved amongst the other European nations!

[Scythe13]

Quick question, would anyone like to call "Admin" and have me delete every response that does not answer the question "How would you leave the UK?" Anyone at all? ……Please……

There have been some very patriotic replies here, and even the notion that contamination or the alike might be a reason to leave the UK. Maybe there's a financial crisis and everyone is being herded up for 'controlled camps' and there are groups of people with guard dogs and search dogs hunting the area. So staying home isn't an option, and neither is living in the woods longterm.

Instead of shouting "It'll never happen! I'm not leaving!" then consider is the UK was in a worse situation that Greece is now. Or think about the Jews in Nazi Germany that said "I'm not leaving!" and people in situations like that. Could it be you? Maybe not. But a member of our forum has asked a question to seek advice and get ideas. His question was not "Would you leave…?" it was "HOW would you leave…?" If you wouldn't leave, then by answering this thread saying "I'm not going to leave….ever!" all you've done is show a lack of understanding of the question, and a lack of respect for the forum member looking for ideas. If you do not have any ideas, then don't respond to the thread. You'll only make yourself look silly. Imagine it this way "What's the best kind of dog to catch rabbits with?" and someone replies "I use snares and a gun. I'm allergic to dogs." That would be a retarded response. Did it answer the question? NO. The question might well be based on the fact the other member's wife wanted a dog, and he wanted to have it be part prep part pet. So any response outside the original question's boundaries would be moot. What's worse is harping on about how you like guns in a "What dog" thread. Which is kind of what's going on here.

Okay, rant out of the way.


So, back at the original question….HOW WOULD YOU LEAVE THE UK….

Personally, I'm taking flying lessons for this exact reason. My thoughts are, if it's a really bad event, and the UK is under military rule or some other crap like that, e.g. Jew in Nazi Germany, Idi Armein (Definitely spelt that wrong), or a major economic catastrophe like in Greece at the moment, you'd have to get out ahead of time. Having the option for residency in another country would be ideal. Personally I have India, HongKong, and Australia in mind as residency options. All of which I know I am currently eligible. But obviously that could change rapidly if a major event happens. Like when George Bush was re-elected, Australia hit an all time record for residency applications/enquiries in a day. Not amazing, but the record beaten was impressive. In that one day alone, they broke the record for the most enquiries and applications, for any MONTH! Yes, that many Americans were looking for other options.

Why India, HongKong and Australia? Friends, family, and language. Everyone in India speaks English. Everyone in HongKong speaks English. Everyone in Oz speaks English. And I have friends and family in all of them. Beyond there I have other parts of China, America, and some friends in France and Germany. Any guesses what languages I'm touching up on? haha.

How though. That's the real question. Well, I'm currently taking flying lessons, and my wife has had her first flying lesson too. I'm working on building a business that will give me options for transport e.g. boats and maybe even a small plane (like a Piper or Cesna) when the company is big enough. Plus it'll help fund a small property out there.

The things I'm looking out for…reliable rumours. That sounds weird to say. But the thing is, there are so many people saying what's coming, but everyone's staying put. Good. When more people want to leave, that's when it's hardest to get out. Imagine how much better you'd be feeling if you had left Greece 2 years ago when things started to get dicy. You moved to, say…America, China, India, Australia, Thailand. You've banded up with previous immigrants from your country that have gone out there before you. You have planned ahead of time and speak the language. Good planning you! Gold medal. Speaking of gold. You have a small store of precious metals that you've changed for local currency, and it helps pay your bills until you can set up your own business. Next thing you know…sorted! You've started a new life. It'll be a few years of struggle, but the end result is living in a small hut on the beaches of Brazil, with some fellow ex-pats, and you all enjoy surfing in the mornings, and working at the local school/dentistry/church/architects/builders during the day, then going to the local bar to spend some time with your friends that are locals, and mingle with the odd tourist whom frequents the bar. Then you're sat drinking mojitos, watching the world go to pot on the TV. Think about the Nazi commanders that left Germany and went to Argentina.

Wow! The more I think about it, the more examples of people leaving ahead of time I can think of, and the better they seem to be doing. Wait a minute…maybe bugging out of the UK isn't that bad an idea. But at least I've answered your question Tarrel. I'd plan it well ahead of time, and preferably use flight. Ideally, on a chartered plane, or even EasyJet. If you can get out early enough, the normal flights would still be going. Getting out ahead of time is not a bad idea at all. Staying put, when you have to leave…that is foolish, dangerous, and impractical. It's no more helpful to you than not answering the question is to the person asking the question.

[bigpaul]

there are only 3 ways to leave the UK, take a plane flight, take a boat trip or go through the channel tunnel. if your doing it legally and getting out before TSHTF you have to go through normal channels, you first need a passport(that's me out then!) then you have to be allowed to go to go to your destination of choice...Europe is a possibility given they have "free movement of people" within the EU, I am told (rural) Northern France is a bit like Britain was 50 years ago. if your getting out after TSHTF then its probably already too late...so will everyone else(thats another reason why i'm staying).

[Tarrel]

Wow, bit of a "Pandora's Box"!

Interesting range of responses, reflecting a lot of different views. Personally, I think it is reasonable to question "why would you want to leave?". But it's also important to be aware that one's judgement might be coloured by "comfort zone" as MB mentioned above, or by thinking along the lines of "it could never happen here".

My original post was triggered by the images of these desperate migrants (some of whom are doctors, business-people, professionals for goodness sake) struggling to survive and maintain dignity, and being totally out of control of the events affecting them. I found myself thinking; "If I was one of them, and I could have wound the clock back a few months, what if anything could I have done differently to avoid ending up in a boat in the Med or a shanty town in Calais."

Many of the responses have assumed that a major problem in the UK would be replicated elsewhere, hence the argument about not wanting to be an outsider in a country when TSHTF. Fair point. However, although it's likely that the kind of events that would affect the UK will be global in nature, it's not guaranteed. I don't want to appear unpatriotic, but we do have some deep underlying problems in the UK which could affect us alone while the rest of the world carries on regardless (or, at worst, is less badly affected).

Financially we're in a mess. We have a huge debt relative to our GDP, which is growing daily. Our GDP is largely based on service industries and internal consumption, rather than export. We saw during the Scottish referendum how even the prospect of disruption in the country caused the currency markets to get nervous. It would only take a fall in confidence and consequent change of a few points in government bond yields for our debt to become much more difficult to service.

Fault lines in our society are becoming increasingly stressed. The pace of immigration over the last decade has exceeded our capacity to absorb it culturally, leading to enclaves and "ghettos" of different cultures rather than true integration. The difference between the have's and have-not's is widening, leading to dissatisfaction. Austerity is leading to the reduction of public services and support structures that disadvantaged people rely on, leading to an increased sense of desperation.

Our energy supply is increasingly under stress. The last 2-3 winters have witnessed threats and warnings from energy firms, that the "lights might not stay on". It hasn't happened so far, but there's no smoke without fire.

The above are just three examples of triggers that could affect the UK while ROW carries on pretty much unscathed. I'm fairly confident of our ability to withstand shocks like this and get back on an even keel over a period of time that regular preps would cover. But I'm not totally confident. There could well come a time when the picture of a prosperous, thriving country overseas, full of opportunity for me and my kids appears in stark contrast to the grinding poverty / threat of civil war / increasing oppression (delete as applicable) that I face day-by-day at home. Then I might decide that it's worth the risk to make the move. In which case, how could I do it without ending up on a beach in Libya, waiting for the next boat to oblivion.

After all, isn't that the choice facing those would-be migrants coming to us?