Care to do the maths?, Take away the gas, leccy and coal.............................

[Gizmo]

(22 June 2013, 08:44)Scythe13 Wrote: I hate to sound like a smartarse, but I seem to be good at it.

Although storing more wood and other fuels does seem a logical solution to our problem, may I suggest an alternative, similar in thought process to the different lifestyle and insulation HL is speaking about.

Your alternatives are all well and good and of course you would minimize your use of fuel as that is just common sense

What you cant get away from though is the fact that if you are using wood as your main source of heat, cooking, boiling water etc then you will use a lot more wood than you may realise, which I think was the original point Northern Raider was making.

Until you live with an open fire or stove day in and day out most people don't realise how much wood they consume even just to heat one room. All that wood has to be collected, then cut, then split, then seasoned, and trust me it is time consuming and hard work.

People who see it as being easy probably haven't tried it in real life.

For all the hard work involved though, I would say that my stove (along with my water filter) is undoubtedly the best investment I have made in the event of tshtf

[Scythe13]

(22 June 2013, 23:08)Gizmo Wrote:

(22 June 2013, 08:44)Scythe13 Wrote: I hate to sound like a smartarse, but I seem to be good at it.

Although storing more wood and other fuels does seem a logical solution to our problem, may I suggest an alternative, similar in thought process to the different lifestyle and insulation HL is speaking about.

Your alternatives are all well and good and of course you would minimize your use of fuel as that is just common sense

What you cant get away from though is the fact that if you are using wood as your main source of heat, cooking, boiling water etc then you will use a lot more wood than you may realise, which I think was the original point Northern Raider was making.

Until you live with an open fire or stove day in and day out most people don't realise how much wood they consume even just to heat one room. All that wood has to be collected, then cut, then split, then seasoned, and trust me it is time consuming and hard work.

People who see it as being easy probably haven't tried it in real life.

For all the hard work involved though, I would say that my stove (along with my water filter) is undoubtedly the best investment I have made in the event of tshtf

I know what you mean with this.

Our last flat me and the wife 'enjoyed' had no gas heating. We would have 1 electrical heater for the living room, and I would have 10 nightlight candles burning away in the bedroom, to heat that room up. It wasn't double glazed at all. Not far off the old frozen toilet seat spoken about earlier. I loved it, the wife hated it.

Currently our house does not have a gas supply. We are enjoying an open fire place, and storage heaters. We also have 1 electrical fire place (what a pile of crotch that is! Totally sucks!!! Looks hideous too!!!) that we'll be replacing with a log burner later this year.

The upside down fire burns for around 5 hours, without refuelling, and leaves....less than a handful of ash! The heat it gives out is beautifully intense too.

As for chopping wood...it can be difficult. I'm sure for the older on the forum, it's not ideal. Youngens will probably enjoy the workout, like I do, but I see how people with bad backs, like NR, might struggle with it. Also, people without a high level of fitness may struggle in the colder months with cutting the wood as required (but being prepared means you've already cut it, right?).

As for the idea of the rocket stove, it uses about 1/3 (one third) of the fuel of a normal fire. I've heard estimates of it using 1/5th of the fuel, but I'm being conservative in what I say.

[Tarrel]

Quote:As for chopping wood...it can be difficult. I'm sure for the older on the forum, it's not ideal. Youngens will probably enjoy the workout, like I do, but I see how people with bad backs, like NR, might struggle with it. Also, people without a high level of fitness may struggle in the colder months with cutting the wood as required (but being prepared means you've already cut it, right?).

I find it the other way round. Easier in winter, hard in warm, humid summer weather.

As our Rayburn provides cooking, hot water and central heating, it goes through a LOT of wood. So, I've invested in the toys to make the job easier; decent chainsaw, decent sawbench and a hydraulic log-splitter. I know these may not be as useable after TSHTF, and I do do some manual splitting to keep fit and practice the technique, but why not use the tools when they are available? (Our wood is also very resinous and sinewy, so doesn't split cleanly with an axe or splitting maul).

[NorthernRaider]

I know SD is not to keen on direct links to news articles but I do think this article published today highlights very well the need we have in assessing just how much more we need to be self reliant in fuel and power and within 2 years.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/409800/...-blackouts

[Phil]

A very informative discussion,and caused me to remember some of the old ways of keeping warm.
Vests and long coms were all the rage at one time,but now you can get the fleece onesies that fishermen wear under their other clothing.
Also I saw an ad for a all in one sleeping bag with arms and legs,the soles of the foot area being re-enforced to allow walking,could easily be used for none sleeping wear.
There is a website called I believe Low Tech Magazine (sorry no link)that amongst other articles covers how our ancestors used to keep warm both here and in other countries of the world,maybe worth a google search.

[Phil]

The all in one bag is called the Selkbag!

[Mortblanc]

I look at that thread and do you know what I see??

I see a disaster that failed to happen.

A problem that never was going to happen.

An attempt by the media to control public opinion and action through rear and panic.

[Lightspeed]

How do you mean Morty?

I just read this thread as discussing the amount of fuel that will be needed.

I guess you have an accurate knowledge of your annual requirements, derived from actual experience. ( Me too). But for anyone living in a normal UK home with their family, estimating the amount of solid fuel needed to meet heating and cooking needs is something that needs advice from those with experience.

Adding to this discussion now that its been revived, its important to scale the size of multi-fuel stove to the size and degree of insulation of the house its going into.

The big Aga and Rayburn stoves, tend to be quite high power (hence fuel consuming) as they usually have boilers for central heating systems incorporated. We need to remember that these central heating systems don't just need heat, they also need electricity to drive pumps and control units. As preps, stand alone stoves are a cheaper and more frugal on fuel alternative.

For what its worth our main stove is rated at 8 - 12Kw. Last year it was our primary method of heating and cooking. We remained very comfortable even with outdoor temperatures a long way below zero. Our home is an ancient single story cottage, approx. 100sqm floor space, no double glazing, and with 30-40cm glass fiber insulation over the ceilings. During the trial period, the stove consumed between 3Kg and 8kg of well seasoned spruce and compressed sawdust brickettes per day in the winter period, and one or two Kg per day when just on cooking duty.

In all 1.2 tons of fuel were consumed in the year.

This year we have an "efficient" multi-fuel furnace feeding conventional central heating radiators. Same house, same insulation, and if anything milder winter conditions. Without the cooking capacity of the old stove, this new system is on track to consume more than 6 tons of fuel for the year. So the conclusion is that central heating provides a very much more comfortable living environment, but does so at the cost of a huge amount more fuel.

Have we gotten rid of the old stove? Absolutely not. Its our primary fallback and one that we will never abandon.

[Straight Shooter]

Insulation is KEY .....if you live in a older property there are a few options....internally you can use dry wall with various insulation attached to it from 12mm to 50mm insulation attached to the dry wall or plasterboard you can bond the sheets direct to any internal wall or ceiling using dry wall screws or dry wall adhesive....you can tape and caulk up all joints and paint ....or you can re skim with new plaster....externally you can insulate all the external face using 100-125 mm insulation and fixing into the existing outer skin ....i have done both on the new build and it is totally brilliant , okay its not cheap to do at first ...but i guarantee no matter the cost you will get ALL your money BACK in a few years....you feel the difference immediately...all your normal HIGH bills will go down. We use our Yotul 602 wood burner...we light it when required on the lowest setting 1-2 hours we let it go out this heats up 63 smtrs .....the cost is my time cutting the trees logging / splitting stacking then waiting for it to dry....we have a supply of pallet wood ....SIL s mate owns a pallet yard .....so we use that , which allows us to harvest the trees and dry so we can build up a good supply well seasoned proper firewood...We also have LPG bottled gas for a gas stove and hot water along with central heating...we hardly use !......we are now on with a solar power stand alone set up (not big but enough ) we were going to go for a full system , but many on here have said the store the set up ...and not broadcast the fact they have it .