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best pro gun argument ive ever read
13 July 2012, 23:45,
#1
best pro gun argument ive ever read
This is the single best pro gun argument ive ever read, being both well thought out and well written, i hope you guys like it, also i'd like to hear what your individual opinions on gun laws are, personally im pro-gun and this letter sums up the way i think nicely.


"The Gun Is Civilization"

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... And that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.
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14 July 2012, 09:12,
#2
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
I consider there to be three minor reasons and 2 big reasons for absolutely minimal restrictions on gun ownership.
The 3 minor reasons:
-Historical Interest
-Art (many firearms have exquisiteness engravings etc)
-Sport shooting / hunting / gin and tonic fueled pheasant massacres.
2 Big reasons
-Self sufficiency. Firearms allow you to provide for yourself; you can put food on the table, kill pests and manage wildlife. Firearms are vital for rural management. If the socialists had their way, rabbits and deer numbers would fluctuate wildly, and their would be less garden birds around due to crows etc.
-Self defense. Pistols for EDC against muggers and other miscreants, shotguns and long rifles for hunting and home defense, and what the fun police would deem "scary assault rifles" in-case anyone tries to take them away, be that a dictator, socialist, or other official with a special hat. They are also vital for defense against large numbers of people, e.g. Civil disorder. Watch the videos of the Korean shop owners in the LA riots. They look like they could have used some ARs or AK's etc.

With guns, you can be independent. You do not need to suckle the teat of the state. It's not a coincidence that Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao etc all restricted firearms ownership.

Woe to those who add house to house and join field to field, Until there is no more room, So that you have to live alone in the midst of the land!
Isaiah 5:8
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14 July 2012, 09:37,
#3
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
not to mention the fact that god forbid we're invaded, those invaders are gonna run up against alot more than they bargained for!...if anyone invaded america, sure the military would do their bit, but those civilians would be shooting any invading sob they see Big Grin

but yeah i totally agree with those reasons, and nicely prioritised, i think the big reasons are my main motivations behind wanting firearms to be legalised Tongue
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14 July 2012, 12:14,
#4
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
Firearms are legalised. you just need a licence. Guns are a successful human evolution of the arms race. Like nuke missiles but on a personal basis. A guaranteed physical & psychological threat of lethal counterforce to an aggressor. It's ok for all those namby pamby so called civilised peace lovers to harp on about settling all disputes with words of true harmony and enlightenment - while all the time in their civilization role model, they have proxy warriors to pull the trigger for them! that is their guarantee of peace.. Not their false ideals of a harmonious peace loving democratic civilization - which dosn't exist in any reality and never has in all the time humans have formed any civilization on this planet.
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14 July 2012, 13:33,
#5
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
Lets be absolutely clear about this HMGs anti gun laws have absolutely NOTHING to do with reducing crime, fighting crime or keeping the streets safer, when pressed on many occasions over the years they inevitably admit that gun control in the UK is ALL about not getting over thrown in a revolution by a pissed off public.
The first anti gun and anti radio equipment laws were introduced around 1918 ish because the UK govt was shitting itself that a marxist revolution like the one that had just blasted through Russia would happen here..

I the 1950s some home sec decided without consulting parliament that self defence was no longer a just reason for issuing a gun licence, which did not affect people wanting a licence to hunt, control pests, etc IE rich land owning tories. Later gun restrictions were made promising a reduction in gun related crime ALL FAILED TO WORK for the same simple reason, LEGALLY held guns have only ever been used in less than 1% of gun related crime, AND most of that 1% were suicides by depressed farmers, gun control laws did not bother criminals with illegally held guns so after every ban guun owning crims had a field day.

NOTE next time your idiot MP or Half witted Chief Constable spouts off that in the UK no one is allowed to own a hand gun for self defence you can tell them they are liars. Why because when Jerry Adams and Martin Mcguiness became ministers in the UK govt they were allowed to own hand guns for personal protection.

BTW betcha didnt know the House of parliament has its own gun club either.

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14 July 2012, 17:04,
#6
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
TL,

You are right but wrong. Yes guns as available but they are limited in the number of shots available. In addition if you even wave a legal gun at a bad guy Plod will take it from you and you lose that license.

It is recognised by all but whingy whiney liberals that where gun laws are minimal, crime is minimal and where gun laws are strict, crime is rampant yet they still call for it.

Plods view is simple. They want a disarmed society. Someone uses a gun and 30 of them descend on the user and cart him away. Everything is OK, except for the poor guy initially shot but they don't care about that. God forbit he hurt the bad guy defending himself.

I've seen better gun arguments but it is fine, well said and honest.

I heard about the gun club, can't remember where though. Smile
Skean Dhude
-------------------------------
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
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15 July 2012, 16:19, (This post was last modified: 15 July 2012, 16:23 by Timelord.)
#7
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
Yes, I know that about the 3 shots etc etc.. Mine holds 10 in the mag & 1 in the breech. So thats different for a start. What I guess Hrusai meant, was he wishes that guns were accepted as part of our everyday culture, like in many of the US states. That is that we are allowed to carry, concealed or not - whatever.. That would be the real & present deterrent to the thugs, who at the moment in the UK, are the only civilians "carrying" in our metropolises (That is if you count out diplomats, MP's bodyguards, certain famous peoples close protection teams & undercover ops) :-)
Did you know that violent crime went down in some of the states that reintroduced guns being carried by civilians once more. Yes, I bet that was a pisser offer to the local street thugs. Now everytime they pulled their gun out to rob a liquor store, they risked being shot by a bystanding irate citizen. Power to the people!! lol.
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15 July 2012, 17:11,
#8
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
yes thats the main thing i was going for, to be allowed to carry concealed or otherwise handguns around with you, as a deterrent toward violent crime, although im not sure i'd go so far as to wish them to be part of everyday culture, more accepted as part of life rather than seen as something confined to law enforcement, the army and thugs
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18 July 2012, 19:43,
#9
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
To play devils advocate:

Murders per capita are much higher in the US than in the UK, Germany, New Zealand, Japan.
Now either Americans are just more homicidal or easy access to guns increases the murder rate.

Guns don't 'even the playing field', rather than threaten the old lady with violence and take her handbag the mugger shoots her from behind in case she has a gun on her and then steals her handbag. The possibility that she has a gun increases her risk of being killed by an attacker.

Drunken arguments without guns usually end in a black eye and a few missing teeth where the same argument with armed individuals results in someone getting shot, which is much more often fatal.
Doctor Prepper: What's the worst that could happen?
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19 July 2012, 11:50,
#10
RE: best pro gun argument ive ever read
(18 July 2012, 19:43)Skvez Wrote: To play devils advocate:

Murders per capita are much higher in the US than in the UK, Germany, New Zealand, Japan.
Now either Americans are just more homicidal or easy access to guns increases the murder rate.

Guns don't 'even the playing field', rather than threaten the old lady with violence and take her handbag the mugger shoots her from behind in case she has a gun on her and then steals her handbag. The possibility that she has a gun increases her risk of being killed by an attacker.

Drunken arguments without guns usually end in a black eye and a few missing teeth where the same argument with armed individuals results in someone getting shot, which is much more often fatal.
Population is also much higher in the U.S, so violent crime can be expected to rise proportionally. Also gangs, poverty, lack of positive male role models etc lead to violent armed crime. In the UK, guns are easily available. If you live in areas like Glasgow, Manchester or Brixton and put it out on the grapevine you are after a Mac10 you can get one for a bout £200. If you really wanted to you could easily make a 9mm smg, albeit unrifled, with access to a tube stockist, some basic metalworking tools and the internet.
Unless the mugger has prior knowledge of the fact the old lady has a gun, he wouldn't know to change his strategy. I would, and I'm sure most people would rather have a means of self defense in that scenario than hoping the mugger doesn't harm you because you are defenseless. Gun ownership comes with a few other responsibility's like situational awareness, i.e being aware of what is around you.
Citation needed on that last point. Drunken fist fights frequently end in death or paralysis, not the typical hollywood ending where you stagger away with a bruised lip.
Woe to those who add house to house and join field to field, Until there is no more room, So that you have to live alone in the midst of the land!
Isaiah 5:8
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