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Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
14 August 2012, 13:25,
#1
Information  Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Amateur radio enthusiasts have set up automatic repeating stations across the UK.

These have coverage over a wide area and can often be accessed using very low power transmitters. ( but you can only legally access them if you are a licensed amateur)

Listening to the repeaters using VHF/UHF hand held radios like UV3r and UV5r type equipment provides knowledge of radio conditions in the local area and good training for hearing what two way communications actually sounds like.... its certainly not like listening to the BBC.

Full listing of UK repeaters, their transmission frequencies and area coverage maps can be found here.

http://www.ukrepeater.net/repeaterlist1.htm
72 de

Lightspeed
26-SUKer-17

26-TM-580


STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
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14 August 2012, 14:38,
#2
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Sorry LS it's bad guy (non ham perspective) time.

All those repeaters are there because high frequencies mean low range.
THAT'S WHY THEY NEED SO MANY to get any decent range!
Will they all keep working if the lights go out? No.
Can a "non bacon man" like a lot of us are use them? No.

As our friend Lightspeed points out, it's frowned upon and illegal for ordinary people to access these repeaters.
Listening in though is normally a good cure for insomnia.

Question I always ask myself is 27Mhz for the run of the mill CB'er typically maxes out at 10 miles depending on terrain.
BUT add some decent altitude and aerial system and 4 watts goes a long long way. Yet CB DX groups don't use repeaters.

Could that be because they are better operators or just use better equipment and frequencies.

CB (11 meters) Rules OK!

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14 August 2012, 14:41,
#3
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Unsure about all the tech talk as usual but I would imagine very few repeater stations have independant emergency power sources ?, Again going back to the military its likely to be a guy sat atop a hill with a big aerial who sends the message , doncha fink?

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14 August 2012, 15:03,
#4
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Yep.
Bigger and higher the whip, the further you speak.
You been out on the hills with your handheld yet NR?
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14 August 2012, 15:05, (This post was last modified: 14 August 2012, 15:10 by Lightspeed.)
#5
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Intention of the post is to share info on what is in place today across the UK. It happens to be on VHF and UHF frequencies. If a CB based reteater network were established I'd have included that too.

The repeater machinery is generally located in very favorable locations and always well above the ground.

These repeaters are a real life illustration of the range that can be expected from lowish powered transmitters located on hilltops ( or near to hill tops to maintain Opsec) Exactly as you say NR. But remember that not everyone in our group has the benefit of a military training behind them and so some of this stuff needs to be demonstrated first hand.

Example: Driving South from London the GB3SN 2 meter repeater can be heard almost constantly all the way to the coast. thats around 70 miles. pretty good for a 5w transmitter.

I'm sure that a CB repeater atthe same location would have generated similar results.



(14 August 2012, 14:38)Paul Wrote: Sorry LS it's bad guy (non ham perspective) time.

All those repeaters are there because high frequencies mean low range.
THAT'S WHY THEY NEED SO MANY to get any decent range!
Will they all keep working if the lights go out? No.
Can a "non bacon man" like a lot of us are use them? No.

As our friend Lightspeed points out, it's frowned upon and illegal for ordinary people to access these repeaters.
Listening in though is normally a good cure for insomnia.

Question I always ask myself is 27Mhz for the run of the mill CB'er typically maxes out at 10 miles depending on terrain.
BUT add some decent altitude and aerial system and 4 watts goes a long long way. Yet CB DX groups don't use repeaters.

Could that be because they are better operators or just use better equipment and frequencies.

CB (11 meters) Rules OK!

Paul,

you're right, why have there never been any CB FM repeaters in the UK. Was it forbidden by licencing rules? Is it still forbidden by license free operation rules? I don't know.

If regs permit, we could consider creating our own SUK CB based repeater network. But who'll be prepared to fund this, and is it really a viable option?
72 de

Lightspeed
26-SUKer-17

26-TM-580


STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
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14 August 2012, 15:56,
#6
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Hey you guys keep writing it and we will keep learning from it Smile

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14 August 2012, 16:07,
#7
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
The repeater network is good, they work well, it's time proven, reliable, but they are exclusive for hams.
They aren't government supported so are heavily reliant on local "keepers".
Because they aren't government supported they won't have the priority electrical supplies or decent backup systems. After 24 hours of no power, it's going to be a hit or miss system.

CB repeaters?
First problem was (and probably still is) the government. A brief history lesson.

Like pirate radio they hated free speech CB'ers hence they were initially deemed illegal.
The first government committee looking into them was made up of scientists and bacon (whoops) hams so it was doomed to be a disaster from the get go.

Despite learned representation from a couple of national CB organizations, the committees chose a silly channel layout (out of step with the rest of the world) a useless mode of modulation FM, limited the power, and introduced a money making scheme called a CB license.

Yeah, right. It all went down really well with the CB'ing world.
Something like a lead balloon would now.

The post office was charged with routing out all evil and their mascot (a big chicken called Busby) became a rallying point against the system. Older CB'ers will remember the phrase "Buck Fusby" well.
Dyslexia rules KO if you don't get the significance.

There was no need for repeaters though. Messages were passed up and down the country using a ad hock system of truckers and mobile operators passing things by word of mouth.
Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't. About 50:50 for those living near the A1, M1, M4, or M5.
CB nets (groups of CB'ers chatting) were the standard back up as it was dead easy to relay chatter round the country.

You have to remember that this electronic computer / mobile phone society didn't exist then so people were more friendly and helpful!

Anyone running power or even looking a bit suspect with a decent home base aerial was libel for a visit by the post office gremlins.
At times, when popular CB'ers were visited, it was not unknown for the street to be blocked by hoards of fellow CB'ers stopping Fusby from confiscating gear.
It would have been called a riot now but at that time the police were a bit more sensible about things.
End of history lesson.

So the feasibility of repeaters.
Numbers of CB'ers is on the increase BUT until the internet and cellular systems crash, there isn't the interest there. That's a serious problem. The old CB clubs are gone.
Preppers are too fragmented and generally can't agree on anything without it getting too complicated. There is also the power side of things. Certain prepper groups think they are a cut above the rest. If they don't want to do it, their membership won't.
Basically no "we're all in this together so lets help each other".
Curiously the worse offenders are those who are the better "organized and respected". Personally those groups I avoid as they have senior member issues i.e. if your face doesn't fit you're no one.

You can also almost guarantee that the bacon world would object to it anyway.
Wouldn't stop them using the system if it was set up though, it's just that it's not sexy enough for them to help set up.

Besides, if there was a requirement for HF repeaters, the bacon would have done it by now.

Paul







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14 August 2012, 16:19,
#8
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
I've been chased around North Yorks in the middle of the night by BT, Customs and the plod back in the 70s, We used to meet at a certain Lorry Park to buy rigs brought into the UK by truckers, and "the man" was always lurking around trying to catch us out.

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14 August 2012, 19:05,
#9
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
Hi Paul,

Re: if there was a requirement for HF repeaters, the bacon would have done it by now.

There are three live Ham repeaters in the UK on 10metres and more in Europe and USA

Really I was just posing the question, beacause it is technically feasible to set up repeaters. Limiting factors will be legislation, cash and demand ( in that order)

LS








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72 de

Lightspeed
26-SUKer-17

26-TM-580


STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
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14 August 2012, 21:23, (This post was last modified: 14 August 2012, 21:32 by The Local Ned.)
#10
RE: Repeaters ( Ham) locations and coverage maps
I'll enter the debate here doing my usual.

As a late 70s early 80s CB'er I well remember the dreaded detector vans , word quickly went out if one was in the area.
I even remember having an older 49Mhz walkie-talkie and chatting away to people thinking that as it wasnt a CB I wouldn't get done....they really tried to crackdown then , but it was all keystone cops stuff.

Now - on the CB debate - the nationwide CB relay has been tried before and failed...no repeaters involved.
These days as the tech has improved it MUST be so much easier to create some form of CB repeater type network , but there's a twist - everyone and their dog will be able to use it....anyone with a CB that is.

HAMs keep their repeaters under close scrutiny as they believe they are the radio elite , IMHO they are the top enthusiasts , but it doesn't give them the right to lord it over anyone else.

Their argument stems from the fact that their are licences and money involved that gives them certain privileges over the rest of us so they are entitled to keep the repeaters that THEY fund and setup free of others - fair enough in my mind.

Now - if YOU want to fund a FEW well placed CB repeaters - that involves buying the tech equipment , building a cabinet to house it , erecting a mast with the obligatory antenna(s) etc - would YOU be cool about others maybe hogging the channels , perhaps even using the CB repeaters as a cheaper substitute for business radio, which would cost them licence fees again ?

CB DXing is fun - I know how far 27FM can reach just using a K40 magmount through a decent rig in an old sherpa van , but it isnt always possible , and that was part of the fun.

This is another direction entirely for the comms debate , one which I think isn't worth going down , not because of the time and effort needed to teach the tech involved , not because I dont know if 11Mtr repeaters are even viable - but because without major funding - it will go nowhere.
...and of course there's the OPSEC factor to consider - moving a repeater mast and equipment isn't done very quickly , never mind the overall effect a small radio mast will have next to your location....like a big arrow pointing to you , a lot of those HAM guys will have generators ( remember -a lot of them are radio and electronic 'nerds' )- just so they can remain on air when the lights go off....so don't expect all of the vhf/uhf repeaters to go down.
Trying very hard not to be paranoid.....and it aint getting easier.
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