when does a preper become a raider

[grumpy old man]

was not too sure where to put this question !
on the american site's they talk about the different kinds of preper and it got me thinking when does a preper become a raider?
and how for would you go to get what you need for you family? would that make you a raider?

[Skean Dhude]

This is my view of what I think you mean.

A prepper is someone who is preparing before an event for an event. He will purchase, build or grow his own supplies and store them away.

After an event he will then live on his supplies whilst he rebuilds. This is likely to involve moving on to land or homes that the prepper does not own. That is not raiding in my view.

Raiders however are people that go around looking for opportunities to steal and take what they want without payment.

Preppers will barder and trade for what we want by default. Preppers may turn into raiders if things go downhill and they are forced into desperate measures or if the prepper is of that mindset.

It is no different to people today. Some steal, some don't, some are driven to it by events. Our morals keep us on the right path.

[Skvez]

I had actually planned an article on this but here might be as good a place as any to give my definition of the terms:

A "Scavenger" is someone who takes things that aren't theirs but they aren't intentionally depriving someone of their properly (even if they are strictly speaking "stealing") and they aren't physically hurting anyone to get them. Say your neighbours flee to relatives of theirs with no sign of coming back and you decide to use their kitchen pots to make candles in, you're a scavenger.

A "looter" is someone who takes things that are not theirs and are clearly someone else's, and that someone else is likely to miss the items but they get the item without a physical conflict. If you sneak into someone's home when they're not there and take their stuff you're a looter.

A "Raider" is someone who takes things that are not theirs by physically overpowering the people who have them. If you break into someone's home, tie them up and steal all their food, you're a raider.

The line between scavenger and Looter may be a grey one (you 'scavenge' something from a home you think is abandoned but the owner was just lying low and considers you a looter) but a Raider is always clear to see.

A prepper is someone who prepares, their preparations can include the plan to be any or none of the above.

[Skean Dhude]

Good explanation. I've more work on that area coming myself.

[grumpy old man]

what i would like to know is when you would become a raider ?
i know that i have preped well but i have thought about if my plans fall apart for some reason and i had to take my family to the road in my kit i have (things to help with my entery) and if i really needed something and i couldn't reason or make a deal then i would take it by force. this would be last resort as any conflict has a 50-50 chance and if i lose i would be dead.
and would sit hevey with my soul.
does that make me a raider? i don't know?
what would you do? or would you never raid for you and your family's survival?

[Skean Dhude]

Ah!

I have prepared so I wouldn't become a raider and I would like to say I never would but I know that is not true as I would do what is necessary to protect my family. I can't think of a circumstance though where I would raid someone who has done me no harm. There would be few items that you really needed but lets assume there is one for this discussion. At that point I would say raiding would be an option for me. It would always be the last option though.

If everything went to hell I would try and set upon my own starting from scratch keeping away from others and only defending myself as necessary. We still have a lot of knowledge that would be useful.

If however my stores were raided and stolen I would have no issues with retaliation and would raid to get them back and/or revenge. I am not the forgiving type. Although I would be very careful how I did it and it would not be unplanned.

[grumpy old man]

i am glad i am not th only one to think like that then

[Skvez]

(7 September 2011, 09:56)grumpy old man Wrote: I am glad I am not the only one to think like that then

'Glad' is the wrong word. We should all be afraid.

If even reasonable prepers recognise that they would raid if they had nothing we must assume that a significant percentage of the population will likewise do this when desperate. Since very few of them are preparing in a sever scenario there will be a lot desperate people raiding. This is something to be very afraid of, especially for those of us who are going to attempt to survive in a relatively populated area.

[Skean Dhude]

We are afraid. That is why we practise OPSEC and keep our heads down.

But we have to be realistic. We know that those that have not planned are not going to go away and just die quietly. Why would we expect preppers who have not prepared fully or have through some misfortune lost their preps be any different?

There is nothing new here we are just being open about a situation that we hope we will not have to face.

[grumpy old man]

this is my worry
if i have thought of it every one else will the pop won't just go away and leave us alone.
they will try and rob us even when we settle down to rebuild
that is why defence plays a big part of my plans. i don't mind working with people to safe guard the future for my family