the depression begins?

[bigpaul]

(8 December 2012, 01:26)Ferret Wrote: if we are living in a post apocalyptic society (regardless of type or degree of apolcalypse) where does paper money, supported or otherwise by vaults of gold, come into survival?

it dosent, we'll be back to the good old barter system, nobody will take cash or gold cos you cant eat it !

[Scythe13]

China holds 20% of all the dollars in circulation. China can't yet let the dollar crash. Slowly they'll start decreasing the amount they hold. When they do, that'll be when it's safe for the dollar to collapse.....if you're Chinese.

[Skean Dhude]

or it can be the financial weapon it has now the potential to be. What does China care about losing money. Every yuan they spend on military hardware is an invetment towards world domination, why not use this as well?

[Geordie_Rob]

How would they use it as a weapon? Just literally flood the market with cheap dollars?

[NorthernRaider]

(8 December 2012, 13:10)Geordie_Rob Wrote: How would they use it as a weapon? Just literally flood the market with cheap dollars?

They have bought up hundreds of billions of US debts and mortgages etc, they own immense amounts of interest in US companies, they could simply forclose on those debts at any time and it would stop the entire US economy in its tracks.

[Geordie_Rob]

But surely for debt the us could just say "sorry, can't afford it".

I meant my question on the basis of having billions worth of physical paper dollars.

[NorthernRaider]

(8 December 2012, 13:27)Geordie_Rob Wrote: But surely for debt the us could just say "sorry, can't afford it".

That would then mean the US Defaults and the token value the dollar has is worthless so no one would trade in dollars, and the global commodities markets who trade in dollars, Oil, Gas, Copper, Coal Grain etc would collapse and people would seek other currencies or demand payment in gold / silver

[Mortblanc]

If default ment the end of a nation then half the world map would be a blank slate.

Countries, just like corperations, defalt, reorganize and continue operation. Default is simply another economic tool to manipulate the world stage.

Independent nations can change the value of their currency daily, just like they can change the value of precious metals inside their borders at will. That is why the term "sovereign" is used to discribe them.

The U.S. has a history of manipulaying not only its currency bit also the value of precious metals within its borders as well as systematic defaults as needed.

There is little difference between default and borrowing so much money no one can call in their debt because their own economy is built on the primary nation's debt.

Do not forget that China is not the greatest investor in real capitol in the U.S. Great Britian holds that title. The result of "default" on GB would not be a "domino effect", comming at some point down the road. We are "down the road" now it would be immidiate and substantial.

The result of this discussion being ?????

How long would the resulting depression/recession last, one year, 2 years? I have friends here in the states that have been unemployed for 3-4 years at this point. These were not laborers or layabouts, they were professionals; engineers, computer anaylists, IT specialists, professors. They are no longer even included in the unemployment count!

They were true middle class people, now living on welfare and free food programs.

What we should really fear, in any nation on earth, is the war that will result from the present attempt to artifically redistribute the world's wealth. We have not experienced a "real war" with mass casulties, full government control of production and labor, rationing and conscription for nearly 70 years.

If there is a shortage of rescource, and technology can not alleviate the shortage, then only one of two things can result. Massive plague must reduce the population or massive warfare must reduce the population.

The random selection of sickness can be controlled with vacciantion of the elite. War casulties can be selectively controlled through proper planning without the obvious favoritism of the vaccination process.

[Wildman]

(8 December 2012, 18:20)Mortblanc Wrote: If default ment the end of a nation then half the world map would be a blank slate.

Countries, just like corperations, defalt, reorganize and continue operation. Default is simply another economic tool to manipulate the world stage.

Independent nations can change the value of their currency daily, just like they can change the value of precious metals inside their borders at will. That is why the term "sovereign" is used to discribe them.

The U.S. has a history of manipulaying not only its currency bit also the value of precious metals within its borders as well as systematic defaults as needed.

There is little difference between default and borrowing so much money no one can call in their debt because their own economy is built on the primary nation's debt.

Do not forget that China is not the greatest investor in real capitol in the U.S. Great Britian holds that title. The result of "default" on GB would not be a "domino effect", comming at some point down the road. We are "down the road" now it would be immidiate and substantial.

The result of this discussion being ?????

How long would the resulting depression/recession last, one year, 2 years? I have friends here in the states that have been unemployed for 3-4 years at this point. These were not laborers or layabouts, they were professionals; engineers, computer anaylists, IT specialists, professors. They are no longer even included in the unemployment count!

They were true middle class people, now living on welfare and free food programs.

What we should really fear, in any nation on earth, is the war that will result from the present attempt to artifically redistribute the world's wealth. We have not experienced a "real war" with mass casulties, full government control of production and labor, rationing and conscription for nearly 70 years.

If there is a shortage of rescource, and technology can not alleviate the shortage, then only one of two things can result. Massive plague must reduce the population or massive warfare must reduce the population.

The random selection of sickness can be controlled with vacciantion of the elite. War casulties can be selectively controlled through proper planning without the obvious favoritism of the vaccination process.

cull the nations with ww3!! its been on my mind for a long time.

[BDG]

(8 December 2012, 18:20)Mortblanc Wrote: I have friends here in the states that have been unemployed for 3-4 years at this point. These were not laborers or layabouts, they were professionals; engineers, computer anaylists, IT specialists, professors. They are no longer even included in the unemployment count!

They were true middle class people, now living on welfare and free food programs.

Then these are the people we must lose. Their role and their mindset has come to a dead end. If they have not had the gumption do do something, to change who they are, what they are, even lie to change themselves into someone who would get work - if they are the kind of person so say "no, I am not spreading tarmac on the roads, I am a professor" or "I am not pushing a brush on a factory floor, I am a computer analyst" then these people cannot adapt and we know what happens to those that cannot adapt.

Far to many these days cannot adapt. Should we see any kind of thing that should cause such upset that people would have to adapt to, I do not think we would have to do much to out survive great numbers of them, for many, many people will give up and die.