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Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
10 December 2012, 11:01,
#1
Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
© NR 2012

I believe that a radio system for prepper families, prepper groups is advantageous in the current climate, and I equally believe it should be as SIMPLE as possible as well.

Prepper communications need to be first and foremost set up with PREPPERS in mind and not Amateur Radio Enthusiasts. Most preppers are just ordinary everyday people who become preppers and they need to be able to simply pick up and use a very simple radio and use it when the whole world could be unraveling around them.

People in life threatening high stress situations do not need to start worrying about technical issues apart from have they got the right batteries and is the antenna plugged in.

A system that is NOT requiring licensing by the state or other authorities as to maintain the low profile status required by most preppers our privacy is vital and its simply unnecessary risk putting yourself on government held lists such as licensing authorities.(poor opsec)

It will need to be set up, tested and operational long BEFORE TSHTF so issues like local radio dead spots are identified, best ranges are identified, its ACTUAL useable range determined etc. The kit needs to be comfortably familiar in the hands of its users NOW so that when TSHTF they do not become frustrated or hampered because of over complicated equipment.

It needs to have a reliable useable range even in bad weather, different people will have different requirements but a straw poll among a few preppers I work with say 5 miles in a urban environment and up to ten miles in a rural environment would be highly desirable, this negates PMR 446 in its standard legal form according to industry experts**** (See technical advice from Durham Communications at bottom of page)

The handset needs to have CHANNEL numbers not frequencies, but a display showing both would be equally acceptable. Civilians under stress need to know to go to Channel 9 or 19 not start looking for 26.68125 or 27.78125.

The radio needs to be simply picked up and turned on to be used and not require cables, computer programs, band allocation, step selection, algorithms, programming or any other specialist technical requirements, Simplicity MUST be the key.

Ideally it needs at least some channels available that are not commonly used by CB and Amateur radio users (especially after TSHTF) BUT currently the CB and 10 meter bands do offer the easiest option though both bands are frequently inhabited by unpleasant types (CB) or potential official trouble (Amateur) But again accessing the more secure channels must be exceedingly simple to achieve.

The antenna fitted to the radio needs to be of a quick change design enabling longer or shorter pre-tuned antenna to be used as the situation allows.

Naturally common sense insists that the radios utilize commonly available batteries such as the AA or slightly less popular AAA sizes, the radio itself needs to be able to use Rechargeable as well as Disposable batteries.

Brief summary

For a basic reliable very simple to operate radio system the current CB 80 channels of 27 FM UK and 27 FM CEPT offer the simplest option though it must be admitted that in many areas you still find retarded half with the IQ of a cabbage swearing, shouting and playing music over some channels, we can simply hope these cretins do not survive the initial catastrophe.

Some modern CB sets offer CB and 10 meter amateur bands on the same hand set that are accessed by the simple cutting of a wire link. But at least if you get bitten by the radio bug and decide to get an amateur license you won’t need a new radio.


Reliable
Affordable
Suitable for the job (have good range even in bad weather)
Use commonly available batteries (normally AA)
Use Channels not frequencies
Be at least 4 / 5 watts output
Be unlicensed (For maintaining operational security)
Not require relay or repeater stations
Can easily be fitted into vehicles of home base station duty
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PMR 446 information courtesy of Durham Communications

http://durhamcommunications.co.uk/Range.php

“Two Way Radios
Range to be expected.
Unlicenced Handportable Radios (PMR446)
Ever met someone who had a radio that covered half the planet? They don’t have it now to demonstrate its amazing capabilities but they remember that it worked for miles and miles and only cost about £20
Seen brochures claiming that the particular radio being promoted will work over
a distance of anything from two to five miles or more?
So what’s happening, and what can really be expected?
Check the small print and you will find something like this (Taken from an actual brochure): The communication range quoted is calculated based on an unobstructed line of sight test under optimum conditions. Actual range will vary depending on terrain and conditions, and is often less than the maximum possible. Your actual range will be limited by several factors including, but not limited to: terrain, weather conditions, electromagnetic interference, and obstructions.
The unlicensed radio market (PMR446) is very competitive, with each manufacturer trying to find a gimmick of some sort to increase their market share. So when one manufacturer decides to claim a maximum range under ideal conditions, all the other manufacturers tend to follow to remain competitive. So until there is a standard range test to which all manufacturers adhere to, it would be prudent to ere on the side of caution when looking at these claims.
As a matter of interest "the claimed" long distance record for a PMR446 radio is 535.8 km (333 miles) from the town of Blyth in the United Kingdom to the the city of Almere in the Netherlands. Let’s hope the manufacturers don’t cotton on to this!
Back to reality: The actual range of a radio is dependent on many factors including environment (inner city range is far less than in open field), height above surrounding obstructions and to a very much lesser extent weather conditions. The radios recieve sensitivity, the antenna type & effficiency will also affect the range of the radio. Good quality radios used "back to back " will in most conditions, work in a line off sight path, with range being gradualy reduced or even curtailed by any buildings or geographical features obstructing that path.
Distorted speech quality: can often be attributed more to build quality than to “range” problems. After all in the real world you generally get what you pay for, and you cannot realistically expect, optimum aerials and premium voice quality to equate with radios costing from as little as £25 a pair that are built to a price for the consumer/hobby market.
From our experience you can realistically expect with a commercial quality handportable PMR446 radio, a workable range of about three quarters of a mile to a mile outdoors, or about a half of a mile or less in a built up city environment. If additional range is needed for your application, licenced radios or a system useing licenced radios may be more appropriate.
In the typical factory, hotel, school, leisure centre or swimming pool pure distance isn’t usually the main requirement. More likely the radio needs to be capable of penetrating walls between rooms and other obstacles with decent voice quality being the norm rather than the exception.”.

Reply
10 December 2012, 12:39,
#2
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
Cleaver specification NR, even if a little dreamy: What you’re describing ( again) is a hand held CB radio.

You forgot to mention the length of the antenna on this ideal prepper radio. You reckon these are good fro 5 miles Urban and 10 miles Rural on the stock antenna? Dream on.

To have any chance of the desired range, you'll need a 1/4wavelength antenna to get good transmit and receive efficiency, and even then the range you're looking for will only be achievable on a good day...

Yes a 1/4 wave could be connected to the removable antenna plug. The 2.7m long antenna might prove a little cumbersome and conspicuous though, not to mention that it'd probably rip the antenna socket out of the handheld in no time at all. ( this compares to 7” long for an equally efficient antenna at UHF and about 18” for an equally efficient one on VHF)

The other issue is that these radios seem to be having issues in running for any viable time on AA batteries. See review below**.

So, a handheld CB (Intek H520 for example) will cost you around ₤90, and un converted will not avoid the CB community that you so despise. To use this walkie talkie, while walking you’ll need to lug along 12v accumulator (the things used to power motor cars etc) and to get maximum range you’ll need a 9ft tall antenna.

I suggest that this isn’t a very practical solution for most preppers? Not today, nor after SHTF?

For others to research and draw their own conclusions I'd suggest Googling the following:-

• What is the standby time on a fully charged H520? ( Standby is the time it can be left turned on in receive mode)
o Clue: Not very long

• Is line of sight different for different frequencies (Hand held FM radio is universally a line of sight solution)
o CLUE: Pretty much the same on all frequencies with only smallish improvements on very low frequencies

• Why do Police and emergency services use VHF and UHF hand held radios?
o CLUE: Because they are small, self contained an work well in urban and rural environments

• Why does coastguard, marine emergency, Mountain Rescue and Air Sea rescue use VHF
o CLUE: Because they are small, self contained an work well in urban and rural environments

• Why does the British Army use VHF and VHF
o CLUE: Because they are small, self contained an work well in urban and rural environments

• What’s the cost of a comparative power VHF/UHF hand held?
o CLUE: around ₤50 including internal Lithium battery AND AA convertor pack.

• What’s the Standby time a comparative power VHF/UHF hand held?
o CLUE: it varies, by my stock ones will remain operational for 3 to 6 days continuously on a single charge.

This probably reads that I am anti CB. This is not the case at all. I use CB and it is very much part of my Preps. This reply is to balance your asertions and let others know that as Grab-and-go radios, hand held CBs are not ideal at all.

VHF/UHF dual band walkie talkies ( of the UV5r type) offer
  • lower cost,
    higher reliability,
    greater convenience,
    greater choice of “Free” non-ham channels,
    greater interactivity with other radio users*,


===================================
‘* Other Radio Users of the VHF & UHF frequencies covered by popular chinese dualband radios (eg UV5r) include
o License free PMR446
o Amateur radio operators
o Coastguard
o Marine and shipping
o Air Sea Rescue
o Mountain rescue
o Military

‘**
Intek H-520 battery trials
http://blog.g4ilo.com/2010/05/intek-h-52...rials.html
On my first outing with the Intek H-520 Plus handheld transceiver a week ago I found that the batteries died as soon as I pressed the PTT. It turns out that this is a very common problem with this transceiver. M3XEM has even made a video about it which he has posted on YouTube.

After trying some different NiMH cells, freshly charged, my H-520 seemed to be happy using my longer whip antennas, though it still wouldn't work with the supplied mini-whip. But after only a little use of the batteries it began cutting out again when using a 2ft centre-loaded whip. The only antenna it would still accept was the 4ft whip with counterpoise. I felt that something wasn't right, so I decided to investigate.

I measured the battery voltage and current. The batteries were not freshly charged but had been used on Sunday to make numerous calls though no contacts. With the radio turned on and receiving the current drain is 90mA and the battery voltage was 7.71V. This is substantially above the 7.2V nominal voltage which suggests that there should be plenty of life still left in the batteries. This was confirmed by the battery state indicator.

I then transmitted into a dummy load. On the 1W setting (with slightly under 1W output) the current drawn was 750mA. On the 4W setting (with about 3.5W measured output) the current drawn was 1.3A. The voltage across the batteries whilst full power was being transmitted dropped to 6.75V, significantly less than the 7.2V nominal voltage. The current consumption is not excessive in comparison to an FT-817 which is specified to draw up to 2.0A at 5W output. One factor contributing to the voltage drop is the use of separate AA cells. Most handheld radios use battery packs in which the cells are welded together to minimize resistive losses.

The radio still worked fine at 6.75V, but this was transmitting into a dummy load. On most of my 10m antennas - and as observed by M3XEM - the battery voltage would fall away after a couple of seconds and the radio would cut out and restart. I tried to measure the voltage across the batteries when using the two short whips and it fell right away to 3 or 4 volts! This explained why the radio cut out and restarted. It must be drawing a lot of current to cause such a large drop, but I was unable to measure exactly how much as the radio's voltage sensor cut the power to the TX too quickly for my meter to catch the reading.

My conclusion is that when presented with a load that is something other than 50 ohms, the PA of the H-520 draws an increased current. This effect is significant enough that the radio cuts out even on the 1W setting using the mini-whip antenna. This current draw may be more than rechargeable AA cells are designed to sustain, quickly pulling the voltage below the "low voltage" sensor level.

The transceiver isn't really "eating the batteries" as some users have claimed, as the cells quickly recover their original voltage when the load is removed. The problem is purely and simply poor design which causes the PA to behave in this way and draw too much current when presented with a mismatch. As can be seen from the schematic (which is included in the manual) there is no SWR protection to back off the power.

It is very unlikely for a whip antenna on a hand held radio to present a perfect match, so the H-520's performance in this respect is lamentable. As I noted in an earlier post, the supplied whip antenna was found to give its best match at 28.5MHz. It would present a high SWR on the UK and EU CB frequencies that most buyers of this radio would use and I doubt if any buyer of this particular radio would have found it possible to use the highest power setting with this antenna.Labels: 10m, H-520
72 de

Lightspeed
26-SUKer-17

26-TM-580


STATUS: Bugged-In at the Bug-Out
Reply
10 December 2012, 13:42,
#3
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
Although I dont understand all of whats being said her, I do understand enough,..I think...Smile,.. NR,.. I really do see what you are trying to say, it would be so good to be able to buy a radio to do the things you want,... but sadly I dont think the radio that does what you want has been invented,.. there are simple to opperate radios out there, but you will never ever get the range that your poll of preppers would like from those simple to use radios, even with repeaters,..and if they go down you will be lucky to get 2 miles in an Urban enviroment.... as I dont fully understand everything yet, I may be wrong

I purchased a duel band UV-ER, I hope it will do the job, but in order to get anything that is any good, I am finding that the UV-5R is very complicated,..although I will have to master it, as I do need another one

I am following these communication posts with a lot of interest

Lightspeed,... I found that the yellow writing is very hard to read
A major part of survival is invisibility.
Reply
10 December 2012, 13:51,
#4
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
(10 December 2012, 13:42)Highlander Wrote: I am following these communication posts with a lot of interest

Lightspeed,... I found that the yellow writing is very hard to read

Yes, please make the yellow text red or green instead...pleeeeaaassssseeee...Smile
Prepper Kid: when will the sheeple wake up to the reality?
Prepper Parent: When it is too late to begin prepping for it.
Reply
10 December 2012, 13:54, (This post was last modified: 10 December 2012, 14:12 by MikeAlpha3041.)
#5
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
(10 December 2012, 13:51)Mandlaka Wrote:
(10 December 2012, 13:42)Highlander Wrote: I am following these communication posts with a lot of interest

Lightspeed,... I found that the yellow writing is very hard to read

Yes, please make the yellow text red or green instead...pleeeeaaassssseeee...Smile

Me too AND I'm colourblind to boot Big Grin
But back on the topic......

There isn't ever going to be a "one size fits all" answer to the comms question - the best we can all do is prepare and educate ourselves the best we can and accommodate those that are challenged by technology the best we can - I'm trying to choose my words carefully here and trying really hard not to be in anyway disparaging to folk because I recognise that we all have different abilities so if we can stick to a KISS principle so much the better as a group that encompasses everyone BUT sometimes you just NEED technical abilities to reach the simple solution that suits everyone......

I think that NR was on the right track with his post http://forum.survivaluk.net/showthread.php?tid=3624 because once you get your group going with this mode of communication you can then move it on at pace that suits all in your group.
If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe.
Reply
10 December 2012, 14:57,
#6
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
To make things a bit less 'heated'

http://99mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012...phone3.jpg

That's my radio system.....at the moment.

There, everyone laughed. Now we're all happy, lets get on with prepping.
Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism - Thomas Jefferson
Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither - Benjamin Franklin
Reply
10 December 2012, 15:11,
#7
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
(10 December 2012, 14:57)Scythe13 Wrote: To make things a bit less 'heated'

http://99mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012...phone3.jpg

That's my radio system.....at the moment.

There, everyone laughed. Now we're all happy, lets get on with prepping.

As I said..... Big Grin

(8 December 2012, 19:02)MikeAlpha3041 Wrote: Got it!

Simplicity itself....

2 plastic cups and a bit of string and call signs will be cup 1 and cup two - simples! Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin

Glad to see someone took me seriously Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin
If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe.
Reply
10 December 2012, 15:12,
#8
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
Well they worked when I was a kid,... but as I said before, simple radios dont have the range...Smile
A major part of survival is invisibility.
Reply
10 December 2012, 15:20,
#9
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
i bought a cb....that will do for me ...but when this lot is sorted we will see what comes out...the simplier the better do we really need big range though....should it be groups of preppers within a set range with simple sets , i think that NR is right for the simple kit a child could use....based on .... group...within set ranges for that comms set
Reply
10 December 2012, 15:21,
#10
RE: Simple Two Way Radio for Preppers
(10 December 2012, 15:12)Highlander Wrote: Well they worked when I was a kid,... but as I said before, simple radios dont have the range...Smile

That is all I've been trying to say all along..... oh, and offer advice/help to get to where one wanted to go. Didn't mean to rile and if you look here (http://forum.survivaluk.net/showthread.php?tid=3624) you'll see I was trying to help.

MA
If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe.
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