Canning

[Highlander]

Take a look at the price of this one...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canning-Machin...337e6cb892

---

and that one is a used one

[BDG]

Highlander - when yanks refer to canning, they really mean putting stuff in jars. The kit is usually a very large pressure cooker and screw lidded jars - it is the pressure cooker that is the expense. I have seen them on Ebay new in the USA for £70 but then you have shipping on top of that. I have seen them in the UK for £140.

It would be worthwhile I think to look for some space in a shipping container coming across and stick some of these in and put them on Ebay / Amazon.

[SealDriver]

(12 December 2012, 09:47)BDG Wrote: Highlander - when yanks refer to canning, they really mean putting stuff in jars. The kit is usually a very large pressure cooker and screw lidded jars - it is the pressure cooker that is the expense. I have seen them on Ebay new in the USA for £70 but then you have shipping on top of that. I have seen them in the UK for £140.

It would be worthwhile I think to look for some space in a shipping container coming across and stick some of these in and put them on Ebay / Amazon.

BDG they do look a lot like pressure cookers but they infact produce twice the amount of pressure and heat than the ones we see in this country, they also are much larger so that they can accomedate two layers of jars and the tray the jars sit on off the pan's base. The Pressure cookers that we use are just not up to the job unfortunately.

---

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Presto-01781-Pre...487&sr=1-1

This is what we are looking at, but with postage and import tax, it comes out at twice the price!

We could go for cheaper models but then there is the issue of safety.

[BDG]

(12 December 2012, 10:25)SealDriver Wrote:

(12 December 2012, 09:47)BDG Wrote: Highlander - when yanks refer to canning, they really mean putting stuff in jars. The kit is usually a very large pressure cooker and screw lidded jars - it is the pressure cooker that is the expense. I have seen them on Ebay new in the USA for £70 but then you have shipping on top of that. I have seen them in the UK for £140.

It would be worthwhile I think to look for some space in a shipping container coming across and stick some of these in and put them on Ebay / Amazon.

BDG they do look a lot like pressure cookers but they infact produce twice the amount of pressure and heat than the ones we see in this country, they also are much larger so that they can accomedate two layers of jars and the tray the jars sit on off the pan's base. The Pressure cookers that we use are just not up to the job unfortunately.

---

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Presto-01781-Pre...487&sr=1-1

This is what we are looking at, but with postage and import tax, it comes out at twice the price!

We could go for cheaper models but then there is the issue of safety.

A decent pressure cooker that will get 15lb of pressure will cook at 121C as long as you are not halfway up a mountain - this should be enough.

The USDA and Colorado University recommend 11PSI at sea level and due to the elevation in Colorado and (as with the rest of the western USA) the much higher than normal Type A Clostridium botulinum spores found in the soil of the area, they state that 15lb should always be used. Whilst I am aware that 25lb could be used with a pressure canner, I would say this is just reducing a very small risk to a smaller risk.

If all you can get your hands on is a decent pressure cooker where pressure can be set at 15lb in the UK, I see no reason not to use it.

This product, sold in the UK as a pressure cooker is often sold in the USA as a pressure canner - the only difference is that it does not come with a canning basket in the UK.

http://www.chefline.co.uk/product_info.p...2dt2alubn3

Not saying it is a bad thing to spend the money on a canner, however, all of the evidence shows that it is safe to can with 15lbs of pressure at home, backed by both the US government and a major university.

25lb is not over the top, but I would say it is belt, braces and wearing pants two sizes to small so they cannot fall down.

[SealDriver]

It is my understanding that the United States Department of Agriculture suggest canning at 240 degrees for low acid foods. Even when you kill botulism the toxins botulism produces can still be present and harmful.

Personally and this is only my opinion, unless I felt that the food was totally safe I wouldn't feed it to my family. Should the SHTF, hospitals will be very busy and getting help for the victims of my canning experiments may be difficult to find.

Also the storage and cost of any food that may be harmful and therefore unusable would make it a no-go situation for me. As much as a like the idea of canning it's something that I wouldn't spend out on in the present circumstances.

[BDG]

No, I would not generally. I do a bit, but it is limited to tomatoes - high acid food anyway and pickles and chutneys - w/r to chutney, as you know, cooked for hours with vinigar and salt and pickles salted then stored in vinigar - both high acid environments.

Even storing tomatoes this way is a pain - rather than pressure cook I do in the oven as I can fit more jars in, but I had a though a few years back - my tomatoes stored get used in sauce - along with onion and garlic - so I use up the over wintered onions that will not store making sauce with the first glut of tomatoes - as I have freezer space, freeze it in portions, do not have to worry about storing nasties, worry about storing a load of jars and so on.

I think the whole canning / jarring thing is more suited to certain parts of America, where any ground in winter could be several feet under snow, where as in the UK we can reliably be harvesting plenty of brassica in winter. Also, beans and peas I freeze - if we were in a world without deep freeze, I would salt the beans and dry the peas rather than mess around.

I think canning has its place around storing meat, but still people in the UK managed fine with making bacon and brining meat. OK, so salted venison might not be the best thing in the world so for holding it for more than a month or so with out deep freeze, you would need to can.

Does make me think however, how many americans canning are doing it becaus they are 'playing prepers', how many are fair weather gardeners and how many because it is something they do as part of their yearly routine and always have?

[SealDriver]

All very interesting points! And generally I have come to the same conclusions as yourself BDG. I'm focusing on pickles and fermented veg and I hope to smoke, dry cure and also dehydrate meats in the near future. I have plenty of dried beans and pulses and although I would really like to 'can' I can see that due to any number of reasons it is looking less and less likely that I will.

America is separated from the UK by more than an ocean and although we sort of speak the same language, the Americans were/are the original survivors who had to thrive in the New World or die....Many Preppers in the US of A are practising the same various skills as their pioneering ancestors and not just that, their climate and environment are very different to our own, all factors that we sometimes forget about or completely fail to factor in.

Yes I too wonder if some American Preppers are doing it as some form of fashion or popularity culture thing. Yet the best of Preppers/Homesteaders are Yanks and I'm always glad to learn from our Colonial Cousins.

I would also like to learn more about our ancient food preserving methods as well as the other European Countries too!

[Aili]

Glad to have sparked such discussion. I was a bit blown away looking at the canning machine - never have I seen such a thing! I am not a "canner" but I remember my gram putting up her berries as jam, and maybe some green beans and corn. Maple syrup was put into mason jars as often as bottles too.

I don't preserve by canning because I'm an urbanite & have only a 4' x 8' garden. I plan for fresh use of produce, with little or no excess to worry about. Someday I'd like to have more land & a large garden, some livestock, but for now it's that, my two cats, an African cichlid and a few guppies.

I certainly understand one's reluctance to experiment when the consequences could be so high. We really don't hear much about people making themselves sick with home-canned goods, usually it's collecting mushrooms that gets people sick, or, unfortunately, store-bought produce and meat that's responsible. 1 in 4 Americans get some form of food poisoning each year (usually mild). I've taken a keen interest in field-to-table processes because we're obviously lacking something here.

[SealDriver]

I think that every Nation has some way or another of preserving goods, but as we move away from those 'low tech' ideas then we forget or we are unaware of them in the first place. My favourite American Prepper on Youtube 'Maine Prepper' spoke about something similar recently, he actively seeks out his older neighbours and learns from their local knowledge and years of experience and he then records that knowledge and uses it in his prepping routines. It's great to know that these ideas, knowledge and experience will be benefited from for many years and not pass away as the people with this wisdom unfortunately must.

I'm attempting to look into the old preserving methods and if they still pass muster I'll apply them to my skills 'tool box' for self reliance.

[Bjm]

Hi
While living in Bulgaria (in the country) canning was a normal way of storing food,along with salting and smoking. we were shown
and practiced these methods of preserving.
Canning was done with jars,using a large pan on a tripod over a small fire. No pressure cookers, To these families this is a way of
life. nothing technical or expensive needed.