Cheap Knife vs Expensive Custom

[Tonka]

That all sounds pretty balanced

They say 'you get what you pay for' and I say 'BOLLOCKS'
Prices are set by what people (mostly sheeple) are willing to pay, not by what something costs to produce or what it is worth. You just need a bit of intelligence and you can buy right.
That said, if you want a knife that is a piece of art, and a nice object to own as well as being a tool, then by all means pay more. Collecting is different from surviving, and is perfectly valid. You can't tell someone the painting they bought wasn't worth it because the canvas is just as good a quality on that cheaper one. But as for needing to spend big money for this kind of tool ... you don't. In my opinion, any survival knife shouldn't really have an ultra sharp high carbon blade, as this, makes them too brittle. Not a problem with a nice bushcraft knife for use as a hobby, but you need to know the knife you are depending on isn't going to snap on you. I think this is more important than the edge ... mankind did OK with flint blades for long enough.

I favor military knives. It's not usually posh, but it's sturdy and has seen enough use to give a reputation of what to buy and what to avoid. The key thing is where to buy from. Military blades vary in price hugely so you need to shop around. I find militaria fairs the best... but there's not many of them about now.

I found this RAF survival knife is an excellent all rounder for £30... and it's sure not going to break on you! Of course some places want to charge you twice that.

[Highlander]

I have a couple of small knives, and I have one larger knife, my father in law gave it to me shortly before he died,..its a good knife, good blade handle length tang, and a metal handle,..it feels good,... but it didn't cost me anything,..I wouldn't pay a lot for a good blade, I dont think we need to

[Northumbriman]

Check out my knive guys. Handmade from great materials and cos I am selling them on here to members as a hobby you get a great price too.

I am doing bushcrafters with skandi grinds, full tang carbon steel blades and in various designs from £40.00

Check out my thread in articles for sale and my videos on you tube under Northumbriman123

[Mortblanc]

I am going to reference the North American frontier once more, simply because I know and have historical record of what was used under adverse conditions here and have less knowledge of what was used on the English Frontier, many milieu ago.

The knives uncovered at our Jamestown settlement(1607) were standard pattern English butcher knives.

The knives taken to the wilderness with the American Longhunters, mountain men and settlers were standard pattern English and French butcher knives. (the traders and the HBC shipped them in crates of 100 dozen blades without handles)

The high cost bushcraft/survival knives of today are nothing but very expensive English and French pattern butcher knives and kitchen knives.

Few people realize that Ontario Cutlery makes all their knives from the same steel, from the Old Hickory butcher knives to their RAT series! It is all 1095. 1095 is standard for the issue K-bar combat knife and always has been.

Randall made his first combat knife from a salvaged file, and today the plant uses that same bled of steel (simple O1), now bought new, after 70 years of being one of the most successful names on earth.

A well made knife is essential, high price is not essential. An Old Hickory butcher knife will set me back $10, the K-bar will set me back $50, The RAT series knife will set me back $150. Same steel, different handle material and slightly different shape blade. But the same blade steel, heat treated to the same standards!

And if I were one of you Brits, limited in what knives I could carry daily or use camping, I would have the very best kitchen cutlery money could buy, or at least the best my money could cover! They are the same blades that allowed settlement of North America, Africa and all of Europe back in the dim reaches of antiquity.

Do not ever doubt the capabilities of what you can grab as you shoot through the kitchen on your escape out the back door.

---

Check out these images and determine if the RAF survival knife is simply a redesigned Hudson Bay Camp knife? And neither one would be a bad choice, but both are simply modifications of a large butcher knife.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=huds...&FORM=IGRE

[Timelord]

Yeah, I get fed up with all this crap about custom knife this, special knife that. Like you said, Most are made out of a few specific grades of steel and it does not take a custom master to make a great knife. It is simple low tech stuff. Many of the so called knife makers are only assemblers anyway, of pre cut & shaped parts. Most of these special "NASA" used types of steel are wrong for a practical worldly knife. All this obsession with a steel that gives a sharper than sharp, almost atomic edge is a load of sales crap also. A decent standard knife steel will give a real sharp edge - which is why it is a steel grade designated for knives in the first place. The grades that give an even sharper edge(like you need it) are harder and more brittle and once damaged are more difficult to regrind. These correct grades of steel are intentionally of a specific hardness range and not too hard. Tool steel gives a good edge but was not the choice for large sized knives as it is too brittle if tempered as normal. Ok for short knives but suspect for large knives.
Those pics of the Hudson Bay knives show the typical sized ones known but there are also woodcuts showing even longer knives - more like mid machete length but obviously not as thin as a machete. All these types of knives are of a blade form that is much older than the Canadian Settlers period and date back to the Medieval period. In fact most knife forms can be found at some far removed point in history and far & wide across the planet. There is not much new in a knife.
I know some folks decry carbon steel blades, but they are easier to sharpen and maintenance is not a problem. Anyone who thinks rust is a problem should really learn how to look after a knife and if you think me saying that is uncomfortable, then listen to your ancestors of the last few millenia and see if they found it too problematic.
Also, flint tools were very brittle and often broke. They were used differently to how we would use a full size survival knife.
Knife Tech Knowledge is simples - you want to try real use swords. Now that's a whole new level of understanding! lol.

(A good place to find excellent quality blades is a 2nd hand market or an auto jumble. 2nd hand tool stalls often have old work knives from old timers tool collections. With a steady eye it will be seen that many of these are of excellent durable quality and are designed to last many many years of trade use. Also farm suppliers stock bill hooks. The simple hand held bill hook is a thick, sturdy edged tool that can be used for a variety of tasks as a large knife and for light chopping duties. They are very cheap and can be ground to a different more knife like shape but will still retain plenty of meat in the blade which is no bad thing. The historical pioneer knives were always sturdy affairs and single edged. If you can find an old bill hook or cleaver on a 2nd hand tool store, then these are usually very good quality and will have a soft back & core, with a harder steel edge forge welded in place, just like the historical knives, swords & all manner of edged implements. These sources will enable very cheap purchases of good quality sturdy blades, that can be left "as is" or adapted to suit. A fiver 2nd hand or maybe £15 new from a farm supplier like "Charlies".)

( A billhook is a very underrated tool. It can be used for some knife duties. It still retains a point and it is good for light chopping duties. In fact the curved end of the blade is very similar to some hunters skinning knives while the back outer curve of the point, if sharpened up, is good for cutting leather or all manner of other materials. Some Bill Hooks have another straight edge on the back edge. This is a light axe edge and again combined with the weight and extra leverage of the handle gives a considerable chopping blow. The bill hook was after all a medieval evolution of a multitool for use in wooded areas. The "billhook" can be worn on the belt suspended in a leather sheath and is of a manageable size - more like a large knife to small axe size)

The cheap versus expensive quest is a wander down the lane of misdirecting salesmanship. Some of the expensive stuff is wholly unsuited to the job. Some of it is good. It is the same for the cheap knives. "You get what you pay for" is a misleading proposition and in reality it is the correct materials and the quality of construction that matter. For a simple bit of kit like a knife, this should not be expensive! Any whistles & bells are just extra if you wish to pay for them.

[Northumbriman]

In general I agree with most of the comments on the thread. A good knife does not need to be expensive and certainly paying for a knife that has been mass produced is not going to make any disernable difference regardless of price. I will however point out that getting a knife made for you or making a knife yourself is completely different. I make my knives from scratch. I cut the steel and shape it, heat treat the blades and then attach hardwood scales from uncut timber before shaping and polishing them.

I make general purpose hardworking bushcraft knives that do not have the high polish of the mass produced versions in the shops but hold a great edge that lasts and is easy to maintain. I can also make knives to a certain extent to specific design. Eg Left handed or right handed skandi grinds. Larger or smaller handle area depending on hand size, larger or smaller blades and shapes etc.

That is the kind of extras in a knife that are worth paying for. Having said that I am a hobbyist so I don't charge as much as most knife makers anyway.

My prices range from £40.00 for a basic bushcraft knife.

[Tartar Horde]

I'm glad timelord mentioned the Billhook as in my humble opinion they are one of the most versatile implements to own. Knife wise there is no need to pay above £30 to be honest if you want a good utility knife without any fancy bells and whistles. Mortblanc is bang on the nail when drawing our attention to the style of knives used in the new World frontier, and to be honest butchers knives would be the best style to use for the amount of game that would be proccesed. The geometry of the knife blades shows some stylistic relation to the Saxon Seax, again there's nothing new in knife making. I agree with Timelord about High Carbon blades and the need to look after them if you are to keep them in the best condition, my experience in this only relates to swords as I have never bought a high Carbon knife as to be honest 1095 is perfectly suitable for knife blades. Being contradictory here I see no reason to fork out hundreds of pounds on a handmade knife, unless I specifically want, say for instance a Pattern welded Seax as a working Archaeological reproduction, then I could justify the expense. But will the Wife buy it folks

[Steve]

I like the Frosts Mora, it's cheap, sharp and strong enough. If you need more chopping power then a Gransfors hatchet is excellent and will actually take an edge close to a good knife, you can use the back as a makeshift hammer, although they say you shouldn't.

I reckon a smallish knife and a quality hatchet are better than trying to use one big knife for both.

[Timelord]

(3 May 2013, 22:14)Steve Wrote: I like the Frosts Mora, it's cheap, sharp and strong enough. If you need more chopping power then a Gransfors hatchet is excellent and will actually take an edge close to a good knife, you can use the back as a makeshift hammer, although they say you shouldn't.

I reckon a smallish knife and a quality hatchet are better than trying to use one big knife for both.

V.much agreed...

the native Indians of America coveted the new metal axes of the foreign paleface settlers. The Tomahawk is actually a mass produced & traded European camp axe, of a design originating in the medieval period. It had a long projecting blade for efficient chopping and a pronounced hammer at the back for woodworking. Smaller versions were favoured by the Indians for combat. The same design is shown in medieval line drawings and paintings.

[Tartar Horde]

(5 May 2013, 01:45)Timelord Wrote:

(3 May 2013, 22:14)Steve Wrote: I like the Frosts Mora, it's cheap, sharp and strong enough. If you need more chopping power then a Gransfors hatchet is excellent and will actually take an edge close to a good knife, you can use the back as a makeshift hammer, although they say you shouldn't.

I reckon a smallish knife and a quality hatchet are better than trying to use one big knife for both.

V.much agreed...

the native Indians of America coveted the new metal axes of the foreign paleface settlers. The Tomahawk is actually a mass produced & traded European camp axe, of a design originating in the medieval period. It had a long projecting blade for efficient chopping and a pronounced hammer at the back for woodworking. Smaller versions were favoured by the Indians for combat. The same design is shown in medieval line drawings and paintings.

Tomahawks look a lot like the European Fransisca throwing Axes.