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Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
17 June 2013, 13:38, (This post was last modified: 17 June 2013, 13:46 by NorthernRaider.)
#31
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
You can move a couple of weks shopping in your vehicle after TSHTF for a while, but when refined fuels are rare or unavailable and you want to swap 10 tons of timber with your neighbouring community for a ton of fresh, salt, bring in goods salvaged in other areas etc.

Remember that after TSHTF and most of us are relying on wood or coal for all our heating you are going to need on average three to four cords of wood per house each winter, so you will be using your fuel reserves to power a wood cutting tractor which will cut and drag your fuel supply to the road side or track side. You guys do the maths as to how much fuel you will need to shift all that timber to the community by road, then look how little you will need to power a tank loco. And the by product is ash for making soap, fertiliser etc and hot water on demand.

A train say a steam tank loco 060 burning easily available wood or open cast coal or sea coal only needs fuel, water and a bit of grease ( natural or synthetic) to work, it can push a flat car ahead of it with chain saws, winches, steam power cutting tools etc to clear away past fallen trees etc

In parts of the US they still have Short Lines ( we call branch lines) that have seen little or no maintenance in 40 years they twist and wobble all over, but each year the local railroads still manage to send GP40s down them to collect grain harvests and huge amounts of lumber often with consists of over a 1000 tons being pulled by one loco.

Hell you could even jerry rig a pick up truck or snaffle one from a track inspection company, fit a methane or biodiesel genny plant in its load bed and use it to haul up to about 10 tons in one go on a line near you. Shifting 10 tons of supplies at 30 mph powered only by pig shit is vastly more cost effective in resources and man power.

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17 June 2013, 14:13,
#32
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
OK for a large community, trouble is Beeching had a field day down here and most of the branch lines were shut, that's why everything goes by road from here now a days, there are a few steam trains in operation down here just for the tourists but the lines don't go very far a few miles at best a few hundred yards in some places. i'm talking Devon not that set up in East Somerset.
Some people that prefer to be alone arent anti-social they just have no time for drama, stupidity and false people.
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17 June 2013, 14:30,
#33
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
I would think that all of our current transportation systems or what remains of them, would be put to use for the purposes that NR has listed. Some may be easier or more fuel efficient or simply available but I'm sure trade routes will open up. People will then gravitate towards that which suits them the best.



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17 June 2013, 14:41,
#34
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
(17 June 2013, 14:30)Grumpy Grandpa Wrote: I would think that all of our current transportation systems or what remains of them, would be put to use for the purposes that NR has listed. Some may be easier or more fuel efficient or simply available but I'm sure trade routes will open up. People will then gravitate towards that which suits them the best.

i'm sure that's right, survivors will use whatever is available in their own area, probably trains would be more viable in the north east as I think there is more coal available there, no coal mines down here only tin mines! i'm more inclined to use horse power myself( also ponies, donkeys and alpacas) as that is what there is plenty of down here..."pony paddock" brigade!!Tongue i'm sure (eventually) supply routes would open up.
Some people that prefer to be alone arent anti-social they just have no time for drama, stupidity and false people.
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17 June 2013, 14:49,
#35
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
I think that where possible, we would probably take a step backwards before we ventured forward again,.. much of the transport that we use today would either be unable to operate or blocked in.

Yet if we go back in time just a couple of hundred years we will find that much of that transport system is still in operation and would be far easier to get running again.

The use of boats, be it sail or otherwise has never been decommissioned it has just become too slow and un-fashonal to exist in this modern world,.. yet we still have the vast river systems, the miles and miles of canals to say nothing of our coastal routes, we are an island and we will revert back to using the water,... we may not rule the waves, but we have the system to operate much of what the country needs
A major part of survival is invisibility.
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17 June 2013, 14:58,
#36
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
i'm sure that's true HL, not many canals in my area, there is one near Tiverton that sprung a big hole in it last winter and all the water escapedBig Grin they've just finished repairing it. but your right, I am sure that some people would use boats especially around the south west. not all of us are sailors thoughBig Grin
Some people that prefer to be alone arent anti-social they just have no time for drama, stupidity and false people.
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17 June 2013, 15:41,
#37
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
I am sure that we could soon learn, we think nothing of learning archery or bushcraft...Smile
A major part of survival is invisibility.
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17 June 2013, 15:50,
#38
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
Look at the now almost completely restored canal network that allows people to navigate from Liverpool to the Humber, The south coast to Rip in North Yorks, One side of Scotland to the other. One semi skilled idiot could lead a horse along a canal network moving 20 tons of supplies in one go.

look at the thousands of canal boats fully restored laying about not to mention liesure craft

Two guys operating a diesel shunter loco of the diesel electric class 08 060 can shift up to 600 tons at 20 mph for over 250 miles

One horsey can carry two bags of grain on its back, two horses can pull a ton of grain in a cart, but those same horses can pull a canal barge with over 25 tons in one go, Hows that for efficiency.

Most railway tracks if used at sub 30 mph speeds can and have done lasted over 45 years without significent maintenance.

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17 June 2013, 15:51,
#39
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
Post SHTF commerce and shipping will be the reason for movement.

Travel will cease for all practical purposes. Shipping and travel are two different activities.

You fellows seem to forget that you have been through all this in a prior lifetime. When the Roman government removed itself from GB in the last great SHTF event of history your cities did not dissolve, they simply reduced their size and continued with their trade and commerce operations.

2000 years latter they are still in place serving many of the same functions in a petrol powered world. The hidden infrastructure still exists in much of your land, rail and canal. Shipping, commerce and travel on the roadway network will revert to foot traffic or animal transport within a few weeks.

Any new city post SHTF will grow in the same place your ancient cities were and are located, for the same reasons.
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17 June 2013, 15:54,
#40
RE: Where to site a vibrant PA community after TSHTF
I think the surviving motor vehicles and available volatile fuels will be directed towards security , ambulatory care, rescue, and survey work. EDC transport is most likely to be gasoline free Gee Gees, Bicycles, and foot. (with the added bonus of the silent movement for better opsec)

This is why it makes sense to identify and record the rail tracks (new and abandoned) in your area along with canals and navigable water ways.

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