Who to call, where, and when?

[MikeAlpha3041]

(3 December 2012, 10:51)NorthernRaider Wrote:

(3 December 2012, 10:29)I-K-E Wrote: I've got a lot of other things to sort out before I look at comms but even now after a quick look I'm not lucking forward to it

Thats the problem to a T, the guys are producing top notch first rate reasearch and proposals for radio systems etc but its set at a level for those with a passionate interest and a technical interest in radios, most ordinay preppers do not fit that category at this time.

trouble is though as LS and TLN kindly explained to me radio kit even today is so primative there is not even one piece of kit that cancurrently meet even a basic requirement spec.

Say
On / off / volume
Squelch
PTT button
TEN mile range
AA batteries
channels not requencies
Scrambling option
Easy interchangable antenna
Does not use relays or repeaters
Completely unlicenced for OPSEC issues.

Best I can do is go with the UV5-R crowd and just use the 8 PMR channels for ranges under 1 mile.

That is pretty much what I'm saying.

I've been a round IT and Communications for about 30 odd years in one way or another and as I said you got to go basic, very basic. I mean, when the power grid fails there won't be any data comms, repeaters, relays etc. end of! Let alone laws to enforce licensed/unlicensed use regulations.....

As is said, I'm going with x2 MT5050 fully modded plus x2 CB AA battery powered handhelds of some sort, modded fully whatever the make and a windup "broadcast" receiver of some sort and a shed load of hybrid AA's and that is it I certaily won't be lugging my PRC320, PRC352, ICOM R8500 and associated crap about with me!

MA

[The Local Ned]

I have no desire to restart this discussion once again or at any other time.

I will simply point out that the 2 nearest repeaters to me - one UHF the other dual UHF/VHF have BOTH got off the grid power setups , admittedly, this results in one being intermittent at times , but the fact remains.

The repeater that is regular and reliable I've heard stations from CUMBRIA working it (Unbelievable - very unlikely - but true nonetheless ) , and I listen in to regular morning group chats from just outside Dunfermline , down to Carluke and around Glasgow etc.

Ham operators can be termed as your original geeks ( sry prepper hams ) , messing around with electronics and coming up with these alternative power sources are right up their street. The only communications net I still expect to see up and running after TSHTF ( but maybe not 100% ) is the radio amateurs with their repeaters.

Food for thought.

Easy to use PMR via UV-5R type handsets will do for most of my needs.
No complications , no huge expectations , very little technogeekery involved apart from the initial setup - which some of our members have already prepared the way (for others to use) via their computers and a data cable.

In most radio setups >Range means greater power requirements and usage.

You wont achieve decent range unless you're lugging around HAM kit OR something simple with a fkn huge antenna and/or a heavy battery...which rules out nearly everything novices will be able to pick up and use with any effectiveness.

Hence the stagnation of the comms debate.

---

(3 December 2012, 23:47)The Local Ned Wrote: I have no desire to restart this discussion once again or at any other time.

I will simply point out that the 2 nearest repeaters to me - one UHF the other dual UHF/VHF have BOTH got off the grid power setups , admittedly, this results in one being intermittent at times , but the fact remains.

The repeater that is regular and reliable I've heard stations from CUMBRIA working it (Unbelievable - very unlikely - but true nonetheless ) , and I listen in to regular morning group chats from just outside Dunfermline , down to Carluke and around Glasgow etc.

Ham operators can be termed as your original geeks ( sry prepper hams ) , messing around with electronics and coming up with these alternative power sources are right up their street. The only communications net I still expect to see up and running after TSHTF ( but maybe not 100% ) is the radio amateurs with their repeaters.

Food for thought.

Easy to use PMR via UV-5R type handsets will do for most of my needs.
No complications , no huge expectations , very little technogeekery involved apart from the initial setup - which some of our members have already prepared the way (for others to use) via their computers and a data cable.

In most radio setups >Range means greater power requirements and usage.

You wont achieve decent range unless you're lugging around HAM kit OR something simple with a fkn huge antenna and/or a heavy battery...which rules out nearly everything novices will be able to pick up and use with any effectiveness.

Hence the stagnation of the comms debate.

Incidentally MA - I'll have that clansman 320 if you don't want it mate ;^) , you dont have an older hand crank genny for it do you ? :p

[Highlander]

I am certainly not an expert, I am currently studying for my Foundation licence,... but I know enough to know that its not so much the radio thats important but the antenna,... now untill I pass my exam I cant use a radio, but I do have one set up, its a Icom-735 with a simple vertical attenna,.. and while moving around the air waves I can easily pick up, Norway, Spain etc as well as UK further south.

The Icom-735 is a dual powered radio, so can be used with battery power as well as mains,..so if the grid does go down I can still use it,... I also have a set in a Farady cage

[MikeAlpha3041]

(3 December 2012, 23:47)The Local Ned Wrote: I have no desire to restart this discussion once again or at any other time.

I will simply point out that the 2 nearest repeaters to me - one UHF the other dual UHF/VHF have BOTH got off the grid power setups , admittedly, this results in one being intermittent at times , but the fact remains.

The repeater that is regular and reliable I've heard stations from CUMBRIA working it (Unbelievable - very unlikely - but true nonetheless ) , and I listen in to regular morning group chats from just outside Dunfermline , down to Carluke and around Glasgow etc.

Ham operators can be termed as your original geeks ( sry prepper hams ) , messing around with electronics and coming up with these alternative power sources are right up their street. The only communications net I still expect to see up and running after TSHTF ( but maybe not 100% ) is the radio amateurs with their repeaters.

Food for thought.

Easy to use PMR via UV-5R type handsets will do for most of my needs.
No complications , no huge expectations , very little technogeekery involved apart from the initial setup - which some of our members have already prepared the way (for others to use) via their computers and a data cable.

In most radio setups >Range means greater power requirements and usage.

You wont achieve decent range unless you're lugging around HAM kit OR something simple with a fkn huge antenna and/or a heavy battery...which rules out nearly everything novices will be able to pick up and use with any effectiveness.

Hence the stagnation of the comms debate.

---

Incidentally MA - I'll have that clansman 320 if you don't want it mate ;^) , you dont have an older hand crank genny for it do you ? :p

Even "off the grid" setup's require maintenance and if the bloke who looks after it dies, so does it eventually....... so don't rely on anything you can't control

You don't need a "fkn huge antenna and/or heavy batteries" - its got a lot to do with take-off angle and propagation and you can make decent DX on an bit of carefully tuned wire on HF (including 11/10 mtr) something like inverted V.

Don't necessarily need POWER, look at some of the distances covered by the QRP boys using a meager 5watts and a bit of wire.....

No you can't have my 320 or my 352 and yes I do have the hand crank clansman genny, how do think I'm gonna charge my hybrids but thanks for offering to take them off my hands LOL!

---

PS: By the by, Repeaters aren't exempt from EMP

[The Local Ned]

I hope to be the guy looking after the guy who looks after it when TSHTF mate ;^)

Agreed regards propagation and the angle of dangle....as for the inverted Vee... I'm dabbling with a couple of 1.3m telescopics and an old connector from a portable tv antenna at the moment -as an introduction into antenna building , they can be easily moved to the correct length for a semi-decent SWR for both UHF and VHF , and are totally movable for vertical , horizontal polarisation ,or of course even inverted vee which should be good for propagation purposes.

Power ? Not so sure about that mate , we both know QRP is a different kettle of fish again , only seriously dedicated radio operators need apply , -me ? - I'd happily burn out 25w kickers and melt yagis no problem.

You can keep the 352 ! its the 320 or nothing

---

(5 December 2012, 00:14)The Local Ned Wrote: I hope to be the guy looking after the guy who looks after it when TSHTF mate ;^)

Agreed regards propagation and the angle of dangle....as for the inverted Vee... I'm dabbling with a couple of 1.3m telescopics and an old connector from a portable tv antenna at the moment -as an introduction into antenna building , they can be easily moved to the correct length for a semi-decent SWR for both UHF and VHF , and are totally movable for vertical , horizontal polarisation ,or of course even inverted vee which should be good for propagation purposes.

Power ? Not so sure about that mate , we both know QRP is a different kettle of fish again , only seriously dedicated radio operators need apply , -me ? - I'd happily burn out 25w kickers and melt yagis no problem.

You can keep the 352 ! its the 320 or nothing

Ahhhh EMP. :^(
EMP is only a factor if you believe that nuke drops are a probable threat, or that this 'massive solar storm' is on its way.

I'm from Scotland.
Massive solar storm ? solar and Scotland don't really belong in the same sentence. Even if it does happen , it would only remove the longer distance capability of my UV-5R. The CB should provide some form of backup for that , but I dont really want to use that.
My personal prep for NBC runs as far as some sealed army noddy suits , and basic filter respirator ( anyone got a spare S10 ? ).
I have plenty of fullers earth for decontamination purposes , and the solar shower would double as a decontaminant remover also.
It isn't high on my list of probabilities mate tbh.

[MikeAlpha3041]

(5 December 2012, 00:14)The Local Ned Wrote: You can keep the 352 ! its the 320 or nothing

All the HEAVY redundant dear will be hear waiting for you, I'll put your name on it so everyone knows to leave well alone......

Solar storms do exist and have knocked out power grids in the recent past and I wouldn't rule out nukes either

[NorthernRaider]

(5 December 2012, 00:14)The Local Ned Wrote: I'm from Scotland.
Massive solar storm ? solar and Scotland don't really belong in the same sentence. Even if it does happen , it would only remove the longer distance capability of my UV-5R. The CB should provide some form of backup for that , but I dont really want to use that.

The further north you are or further south in other hemisphere the higher the risk of an EMP created by a CME, like north western Canada in the 80s.

[MikeAlpha3041]

In 1977, a CME knocked out a communications satellite and silenced pagers all over the world.

A direct hit by a CME in 1989 knocked out power to Quebec and produced significant damage to satellites orbiting the earth.

The Sun's record-breaking "sleep" ended in 2010. We are now in Solar Cycle 24, headed for a peak solar maximum next year. When it arrives, the peak of the 11-year sunspot cycle will bring more solar flares, CMEs, and geomagnetic storms. That being said, some experts predict that this cycle may be exceptionally quiet, producing a lower number of sunspots than the average cycle. Of course, even a below-average sunspot count does not preclude us from a large solar flare—which could cause billions of dollars in damage to the world's high-tech infrastructure which is extreme susceptible to electromagnetic damage.

[The Local Ned]

Oh well , better spring clean the cave and the 'faraday' cage.

[Scythe13]

Nice one! Thanks for the redirect LS.

I need to start reading through the old Comms threads when I get some time free.