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wood arrows & compound bows
13 December 2013, 12:42,
#21
RE: wood arrows & compound bows
(12 December 2013, 22:27)Timelord Wrote: Big Grin & thankyou for the links.

V. Basically, would a wooden arrow of same physical size and of the correct type of wood, be heavier or lighter than a modern materials arrow? The heavier one would have more impact/penetrative ability. Would a carbon shaft flex like a wooden one? Would it be as forgiving structurally? I presume (dangerous assumption) that an aluminium one would not flex to the same degree before becoming out of true or even kinked.
Faster shaft does not necessarily mean more impact. Ft/lb velocity is quite different to terminal impact ballistics - WHICH is what I am looking at! This is what really matters, not the technical launching specs. This applies across all projectile weapon types and is where the Sporting angle is at an oblique with combat mechanics.
Mass has much more to do with impact than high speed (subsonic only discussion!!) and in the case of an arrow pecking or punching through harder facings, then the mass is far more critical than the speed (within reasonably similar & authentic launching velocities)
Lighter projectiles lose speed more rapidly over distance. A heavier arrow may in fact be travelling faster upon reaching a more distant point of impact and has more mass on target.
**(Terminal ballistics is all that really counts, not launching specs)**

This discussion has reference to many projectile weapons, including air rifles and so is a very important discussion, which is I why I have pressed it to the point of exhaustion.. Thankyou Tartar Horde and all other readers for suffering the long winded dialogue & regards, TL. Rolleyes

No problem Timelord I will address each point as I am able. The question about weight of wood vs alloy/carbon, in general a wooden shaft will be heavier than an alloy/carbon shaft, BUT shafts come in different weights so it is only a general rule, as you could buy an alloy/carbon shaft/s that weighs more than a wooden one, so no definitive answer there Timelord. Carbon, Alloy and wood all have to flex (spine) the same amount for the bow they are shot from, so there would be no difference (out of the same bow), the only difference in degrees of flex would be the poundage of the bow they were shot from, as the flex of the arrow would be different for dissimilar strength bows. Carbon/Alloy shafts are definitely NOT as forgiving as wood. If you are taking you energy measurements at the target then many things can effect the result before the shaft reaches the said target. The only formulas available to me to get an idea are mathematical ones that project the final speed at target, taking into consideration friction, fletching size etc. Mass and speed (velocity) are intricately linked and one affects the other greatly when talking about projectiles. Mass in my view isn't as important as people believe as something light travelling very fast has more energy, than something with greater mass travelling slowly, and the most efficient energy reading regarding arrows (and no doubt gun ammunition) is the one where mass and velocity come together at (the sweet spot) you get to the point where having greater mass/ or speed gives you no more advantage. Your analogy between light arrows and heavy ones is a valid point, yes the lighter arrow may lose more energy than a heavier one due to conservation of energy laws (Newton) as objects with more mass conserve their energy more efficiently, but what if the lighter arrow was travelling fast enough to have greater energy at the target?, and I still can't give you a definitive answer as the variables are too many for me to work out. Steve the same argument has occupied Archers for millennia a good example being the heavy arrows shot from an Historical English Longbow vs the lighter faster shafts shot from an Asiatic style composite, the 5.56 vs 7.62 argument in the gun world.
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13 December 2013, 14:57,
#22
RE: wood arrows & compound bows
I get your reasoning..

For a light projectile travelling "very fast" having more energy than a heavy projectile travelling slow, then the "very fast" is outside the parameters of the question. The myriad of variables need not be added to a specific scientific question. The same bow and the same size arrows will equal not that different a launching velocity. As you point out that some carbon arrows can be heavier than wooden ones for the same given size - then that answers my original question.

From this, what really matters is the mass of the arrow itself for the same given size. Would a greater mass/heavier arrow be any more beneficial than a lighter arrow. The heavy arrow may be a bit slower to launch but the light arrow would not be "very fast" in comparison. They would both be within a relative range with all factors equal other than the mass. (Supersonic vs subsonic is not a suitable analogy. The launching & terminal ballistics are very different between the two sonics.)

Pre supersonic projectiles, the martial concept leaned towards heavier projectiles for stopping power. This can be seen in the size of pistol & musket balls. Slow loading weapons needed one shot stopping power and a larger energy dump on target was also more effective against any form of layered protection. How relevant this is to any preppers considerations is their own personal matter.


I suppose that finally it is "horses for courses" and the bow design and arrows selected should be in relation to the objective. That is why an understanding of terminal ballistics and the damage type desired is so important. It dictates exactly what the best weapon selection for any given scenario should be. This translates to the most appropriate weapon system choice for an individual preppers perceived risks - ***based on the receiving end and not the folklore of the launcher itself.***

My take on it would be - lighter arrows for hunting and wounding with heavier arrows reserved for quick biped incapacitation. It would also depend on the level of body protection likely to be encountered. Much the same as historically I guess.

Signing off, TL.
"How far back in time do you think our future will be?"
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