B and C attack threats for connurbations

[NorthernRaider]

LS if you like we can chat about the Bacteriological and Chemical threat to crowded population centres, its a fascinating subject and such munitions have been used in recent years.

[NorthernRaider]

OK have any of you given some serious consideration to terrorist sponsored Biological or chemical attacks ? ( Not Mangel worzel wilt Paul).

Chemical attacks have occurred in Bogota, Brasilia, Tokyo, Moscow and a few other places and in large scale in Syria and Iraq. The US used chemical weapons from Agent Orange to White Phosphorus to terrible effect in Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia, The US govt even experimented on black Americans by giving them Syphilis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_sy...experiment.

Elsewhere in the US they dropped chemically inactive munitions onto towns and sprayed them into government buildings
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperien...t-testing/

Many C terrorist attacks can be done with improvised chemical munitions including dry cleaning agents, water purification agents, bleaches etc, B chemical attacks are not unheard of but thankfully much less frequent. Common in the middle ages and last used large scale in China by Japan in the 30s and 40s

In the UK we tried to weaponise ANTHRAX for use against the Germans in WW2 and the Russians in the Coldwar, we poisoned the Scotish island of Gruniard with Anthrax spores

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruinard_Island

Remember also the Japanese terror group listed as associates of Black September and Red Hand and IRA and Baeder Meinhoff terror groups, in Japan they killed dozens when they released toxic gas into the cities underground railway.

Its all been done before and you can be sure that some nut jobs somewhere are considering or planning to do it again ESPECIALLY as more people than ever before use confined public transport systems and shop in enclosed air conditioned malls.

[Little Lou]

Biological, yes, a little. I rate this as a low risk, and don't see it affecting more than a small area, but where there are elementary precautions I think they're worth taking.

There's nothing to be done to ward off an unforeseen attack - unless we spend our whole lives in protective gear and respirators, in which case we might as well add a foil hat on top. But once we know we're under attack then there are things we can do.

The best defence is to bug in and avoid all human contact - which is something we're mostly prepping for anyway. Like most of us, I suspect, I also have a stock of FFP3 masks and respirators, plus coveralls, goggles, wellington boots and foot protectors in case I ever needed to go into an infected area.

We also all know about safe water sources, and the need for filters. The Berkefeld wouldn't be enough here, but most of us have a ton of Oasis tablets and filter straws as well as the means of boiling without electricity.

However, we may not all know about the natural remedies we can keep on hand. I seriously doubt our government would have enough vaccine or antidotes to go round, or be able to distribute them if they did, but in addition to hoarded antibiotics I also keep powdered vitamin C, wild oregano oil, garlic capsules and IP6 rice-bran capsules. All of these things are easily available, and between them they should deal with most things. This site is very helpful on the subject.

The oregano oil is particularly good because it can also sterilize contaminated water. It's not cheap, though, so I've also sown some organic oregano seeds in the garden, and hope to learn how to make my own oil - which can apparently be done with ordinary olive oil.

Chemical we can't do much about - just as there aren't many defences against people dropping any kind of bomb on you or spraying you with machine gun bullets in a public space. It does, however, seem to be one risk where the safest place to be is often NOT in the countryside, but behind the good thick walls of your own home...

The treatment afterwards is again something I think most of us will have already prepped for - especially for first aid and burns. However, the best comparison for chemical attack is actually modern chemotherapy (very similar to the mustard gas used as a weapon in WWI) and if you look up treatment of chemotherapy side-effects you'll find a lot more options. I note vitamin C is once again one of the best, but this site also recommends ginger - something else to keep on hand.

As I say, I've only thought a little about this. I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

[Lightspeed]

Thanks for opening this up NR.

Its the thought of intentionally infected disease carrying terrorism that intrigued me in your comments in the other thread.

Reiterating what you posted previously: This is where a suicide minded terrorist intentionally infects themselves with a deadly disease ( Smallpox for example) and once they know they have reached the contagious state purposely travel far and wide making close contacts with as many people as possible.

I think that as a terrorist act this would be most effective if the infected person took themselves off to a quiet place to die without raising the immediate interest of TPTB. This way the disease would be re-transmitted from multiple sites, so making the isolation of sufferers and emergency inoculation of potential contacts much more difficult to achieve,

The though of this is very scary indeed.

But just how infectious are such diseases, I wonder? How plausible is such a scenario?

Have we any experienced medics lurking who can advise?

[NorthernRaider]

LL Yup I agree 100% with your comments, little we can do except sensible preps such as respirators, decontamination kit etc, I believe our best defence is to absolutely minimise your possible exposure to BC attack by the uual means
1 Don't live in cities ( many folks have no choice in this but they DO in number 2 & 3 & 4)
2 Avoid the bigger targets like shopping malls, cinemas, theatres, large public events etc
3 Do as much of your every day normal shopping ONLINE, most shops and businesses have home delivery services, Flea bay,Amazon etc
4 Avoid like the plague using public transport on an every day basis, drive, cycle, walk, taxi, avoid buses and never go underground if possible. I do fully appreciate you will at times NEED to fly but explore at least using the train instead ( reduced risk)
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LS
Reiterating what you posted previously: This is where a suicide minded terrorist intentionally infects themselves with a deadly disease ( Smallpox for example) and once they know they have reached the contagious state purposely travel far and wide making close contacts with as many people as possible.
Over 1000 suicide bombings last year, there is plenty of willing people ready to die for their cause and the thought of them being possibly able to terrorise and entire city instead of one small area must be appealing. NOTE Saddam Hussiain and Syrias Assad have not hesitated to use chemical munitions, I reckon they would use bio weapons as well cos not long after an attack the evidence degrades to nothing.

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LS wrote
But just how infectious are such diseases, I wonder? How plausible is such a scenario?

NR
Spanish flu !!!
Bird Flu H1N1 !!!!
Cholera and Typhus are very nasty
Get a job in a diner, station, air port, college, cinema, shopping mall !!!!!!!!

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Look at it this way, decades ago there was far more good reasons to live in cities, jobs, access to services, on the doorstep shopping, ready available entertainment, excitement, culture etc.

Speaking for myself and my family and my family alone, those benefits are now massively offset by the negatives
Much higher crime rates
Gangs
Terrorism
Extremism
Race issues
White Flight
Grossly expensive leisure and dining
Over priced homes
Failing public services
Poor policing
Air pollution
Poor quality water
Abysmal schools
No decent green areas
Every loon and nutjob is attracted to the bright lights
Over crowded
Crawling traffic and gridlock
AND
Lots of recent arrivals who are utterly hostile to the British people.

Yes folks I equally know and understand there are also lots of short coming living way out of town,
More expensive food and fuel
less resources
have to travel for services
less job opportunities.

But I feel that urban areas ATTRACT those with wicked intent, its much easier terrorist targeting. The chances of NBC attacks on rural areas is much lower. I also feel ( speaking personally) the world is getting more dangerous and more extreme as natural resources are depleted, populations rise and drive MILLIONS of migrants towards Europe and the US. Cities are for me getting ever more unsafe ( 14 kids stabbed to death last year in London, thousands others wounded) The police say over 250 gangs now operate in London, drive by shootings, gang rape, muggings, stabbings are endemic, but more importantly as each week goes by a few thousand more often impoverished migrants arrive and SOME must be moles coming here to commit harm. So imagine if they can get at the cities water supplies or a big malls air conditioning, or get a job clicking tickets on a station or teaching in a college or working in a hospital canteen.

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Urban prepping is NOT a no hoper its just their skills in the city must be better attuned and sharper, with slightly different scenarios to contend with, Its not for me, but for others its HOME and we need to help them mitigate the risks they face. I think an NBC attack is definitely something they must consider even if its just a guy with flu working in the local take away spitting or blowing infected snot onto your kebab.