gun dreams

[Midnitemo]

I was just pointing out the /size weight difference between the old nato round and the new one and not trying to get in a pissing match with another grunt....yes you did carry more ammo to the start line , yes you did have access to more ammo in your bergen or belted rounds slung around your neck for the gimpy but the brit squaddie was issued with 6x20 rnd mags and 120 rnd's as the norm.....80's thinking was more rounds for the same weight...we managed perfectly well before as we tended to hit what we shot at after we'd confirmed that it was something we should be shooting at! we had very little wasted ammo as our discipline and fire control was superb and it helps that theres no rock n roll position on the fire selector.

[Barneyboy]

ha like it before we confirmed what we was shooting at is that a dig M

[Midnitemo]

might ave been

[Midnitemo]

I don't know about you mort but if i had a pound/dollar for everytime i've had the wrong gun in my hand for the prey that presents i'd definately be out on the piss right now...the times i've been out after charlie with the .17 and all you see is woodpigeon and tree bound squirrel....the very next time you go you take the over&under after those woodie & squirrels and a deer strolls up so close that i touched him on the nose with the barrels(he went straight up about 8ft in the air like zebedee)so next time out i bring my mate with 6.5 mannlicher schoenauer.....the place is running wild with rabbits grrrr! shotgun followed by the .22 best in the uk 3rd place goes to centerfire of a more manly disposition than .22........better still all 3 of em.

[CharlesHarris]

If I were limited to one firearm for subsistance hunting use in the US, it would be a scoped bolt action hunting rifle of military caliber, either 5.56, 7.62, .303 or .30-06, all being popular here. My own preference leans towards a .30 calibre, for longer range and greater effectiveness. I would not want a .22 as my only firearm, but an accurate .22 rifle ( or pistol) would be my choice for a second gun, due to its lower cost, weight and cube of ammunition.

If I lived in town, instead of out in the country, a pump shotgun would be a viable choice, but unless I could cache a thousand or so shotshells divided among several locations, it would not be my primary choice.

[Mortblanc]

That is simply the risk one takes while dealing with game in these "pre-event" days while the game laws are still in effect and being enforced.

Over here we can not have slugs and shot in our possession while in the field. It is one or the other, not both.

Post event there is not a reason one could not carry the O/U with shot in one barrel and a slug or buckshot in the other allowing you to take anything you see with the same gun by a simple choice of triggers.

Just as there will be no reason you could not carry the O/U in your hands and a pellet rifle or centerfire rifle slung over the shoulder.

Over here our primary squirrel, rabbit and bird guns are shotguns in spite of what you read on blogs and internet forums. The majority of people that are out there bringing home small game (and a lot of large game) are using shotguns, just as they always have. (we have more than a dozen states that do not allow hunting with a centerfire rifle) You can always find pictures of someone that has taken a bag of squirrel with a .22, but for every one of them that do, there are ten hunters out there with shotguns.

I am not even counting the pronouncements of the mall ninja commandos and their choice of second firearm, myself being more inclined to depend on the shotgun as game getter and protector and see the second firearm as a pure food procurement tool which might double as "designated marksman tool". A scoped and well fed .308 can put venison, beef, camel, goat sheep or pony on the table or keep the bad guys far, far away with equal finesse.

The .22lr could be the right choice as second gun in specific circumstances,
1. if one is never going to see large game at long range
2. if they are never going to encounter hostile people at ranges past 60-80 yards.
3. if one needs a rifle that can be silenced with no exceptional effort.

Everything we are talking about is opinion. That opinion can be based on each person's experience or on each person's speculations. They are not the same.

I can accept any person's decision based on their actual experiences and situations, I just know that a lot of what is promoted on the internet is really just speculation.

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Sorry, CH posted after I read M's post and before I hit the button.

[Midnitemo]

Steve, i find the recoil of .308 very harsh in a lightweight sporter and i'd like other members of my group to be comfortable with using all the gun's....not discounting bigger calibre's as it's a good point you make just i would prefer something a little softer shooting say perhaps a 6.5 swedish....i have a .308 in my dream collection but thats a heavier tactical rifle...i don't foresee humping that around after prey much.

[Tartar Horde]

I suppose after a serious event people will use whatever they have at hand, and with no game laws in force you will see a lot more gun owners taking game like like Roe Deer with .22lr. It's the proffered poaching weapon for close up hunting and can be moderated very easily, and being sub sonic makes no crack. Such a view is regarded as heresy today with our tight laws, but all bets are off after the big one, it may not be right, but a lot of Roe are taken with this small round.

[Mortblanc]

I once knew a guy that was married to a woman whose sister was married to a man whose cousin said he once took a deer with a .22lr.

How many have you actually seen dead on the ground in front of you, killed by a .22lr?

And how many escaped to die a week latter in the bush, wasted and food for ravens?

SHTF you want game down for every shot taken.

Midnitemo, I would recommend you take a good look at the .243 Winchester round. It meets almost all your specifications in a centerfire rifle. I have dealt with several over the years in my hands and used by others. They are extremely versatile, low recoil and amazingly accurate even at long range. I once watched a friend kill a ground hog at more than 550 of my paces using a .243 and 80 grain soft point bullet. He then killed a deer with the same rifle and load that November.

I started my daughter hunting with a .243 many years ago when she was 12 and weighed only about 90 pounds. Anyone can pick one up and shoot it without fear of recoil.

An added benefit is that if one reloads they can form new cases from 308/7.62x51 brass and the round preforms well using cast bullets.

Cast bullets in these small calibers really turn them into multipurpose tools. I am working on a loads using cast lead bullets in my .223 at this point. I am getting very good accuracy from a load that pushes a 55grain bullet at 1500fps, which is about equal to a .22WRM, is reasonably quiet and has ZERO recoil. The same rifle using jacketed bullets at full power is legal for deer in my area and takes them successfully and humanely. They are also time tested and battle proven people punchers out to 300 yards or more.

One of the new favorite set ups over here is a light sporter bolt action rifle set up to use the .223 and the large capacity magazine. It makes an excellent multi-purpose rifle.

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http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/produ...3+LAM+10RD

[CharlesHarris]

Agree that while any gun is better than no gun, just because many deer are killed by poachers with .22LR and many people are killed by them, when shot placement is exact, does not make them a "good" choice for personal protection, or shooting small game larger than about 3kg.

I have used .22 LR to dispatch trapped coyotes and racoons, using head shots, but as often occurs with a trapped animal, thrashing around, precise shot olacement is not a sure thing. After several noticeable failures of .22 LR I began carrying a large forked stick to pin the head, and a baseball bat, which dispatched trapped animals positively, without poking holes in valuable hides.

Low power, cast bullet loads for the hunting rifle, which approximate the energy of an old blackpowder rook rifle, or modern pistol or revolver cartridge, are viable small game rounds, which are more effective than any rimfire. A soft lead 7.62 bullet of 7-10 grams, at a velocity of around 300 m/s is ideal.