Minimum Growing Space

[Steve]

A vegetarian diet is tricky, you expend a lot of energy in growing and harvesting the food, which generally has a low calorific value. Alternatively, you can let animals do the harvesting and then eat them. I have a good book from the USA about "bio-intensive" high density growing, worth a look if you have limited space: http://www.growbiointensive.org , although I personally favour letting tasty animals do some of the work.

[Devonian]

Hi Steve

Thanks for the link, I'll have a good look through that in a bit.

Although as in the first post its not meant to be vegetarian diet, it would be supplemented by eggs and occasional fish/meat as well - but the meat side would be dependant on being able to hunt rabbits/Birds/Deer etc, and being successful with the fishing nets/lines, foraging shellfish etc none of which is a given hence the "occasional" in the original post. But the hunting side is a separate discussion which is already happening on other threads.

Also its not about coping with limited space, its about how much space do you "realistically" need to feed yourself/your family?

[BDG]

(28 April 2014, 23:28)Mortblanc Wrote: The estimates given are absurdly small. They also are dependent in every crop being successful at full production. They are also not including maize in their calculations and are heavy on the wheat, which is much less versatile and robust in a survival setting. These people are mathematicians and not cooks or farmers.

5 eggs per week?

3 servings of pork?

Zero beef ration???

Zero chicken meat ration??

I love that comment "If you wish to add dairy". Butter and cheese are staples of rural calorie intake.

2300 VEGITARIAN calories with low fat and questionable protein intake per day on a working farm?????

2300 calories is the recommendation for sedentary office workers, not people doing intense farm labor.

Following those guidelines one would need to work very hard in order to starve decently

^^^that.

In the UK you will struggle to death to grow 2300 calories for you to consume by consuming 2300 calories. You would be putting more work in than you would be getting out.

Subsistence living and subsistence farming I would reckon on it starting out putting another 1500 calories a day on your needs, minimum in the UK.

You could grow maize to feed animals, but it is by no means a decent feed as the major part of the feed - you would end up with very poor animals on it. The graphic does not give the yield, but we will not get a USA return in the UK. It is also a very hungry crop. You would be better off buying in animal feed, so you would need some money.

You have to factor in that in a UK climate, you are going to need to manage woodland for firewood.

If you are getting top class produce and lots of it from your land, you will need years of experience and to really know you land and treat it right and have the inputs at hand to use.

For a family of four, good land, good aspect, right livestock for the land, things set up in such a way they were efficient and you do not want to rely on a lot of outside inputs other than to pay for the things they cannot reasonably supply themselves, two acres of good or improved land - you can improve it through you own work and the work of livestock, two acres of pastures, four acres of hay and six acres of mixed woodland, nine or more being better.

(29 April 2014, 22:34)Devonian Wrote: Also its not about coping with limited space, its about how much space do you "realistically" need to feed yourself/your family?

12 acres I would say with some basic, but good living.

[MaryN]

I would go along with BDG's estimate of land required. People forget that, if you keep livestock, you have to have the wherewithal to feed it, and that means forage/hay for the grass-eaters.

[Mortblanc]

It seems everyone is counting on "buying feed" as part of their "subsistence living".

Buying what you need is not subsistence living. You are doing that right now without the blood sweat and tears.

Traditional requirements for 15th century level of subsistence farming was 6 acres per person. Those are the numbers given my the people of that day and your historians at any rate.

Standard maize expectation over here is 300 bushels per acre with proper rainfall and fertilizer.

Add to that the view over here of maize as an all around human and animal food, due to the fact that our continent was settled with maize being the primary subsistence/survival crop.

If it would hold up to the rigors of survival farming 100 years ago, with less yield per acre than expected today, it will still do the job.