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Brexit woe
26 June 2016, 17:52,
#11
RE: Brexit woe
(25 June 2016, 20:48)harrypalmer Wrote: Its done now, the route is being laid, the UK if flucked...enough said on the issue.

Totally disagree, Brexit finally gives us the chance to try and stop the socialist rot from taking over and completely ruining the country.

This could potentially be a new dawn for the UK - wait and see how many other EU Countries follow us....
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26 June 2016, 19:00,
#12
RE: Brexit woe
Quite agree, Dev. I admit to having a nervous moment before the vote when the polls were leaning towards Remain, but commonsense prevailed (thank goodness!). Roll up sleeves now and get on with it.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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26 June 2016, 23:26,
#13
RE: Brexit woe
Sadly, common sense did not prevail.

You are right Mary, time to roll up sleeves and try and salvage what we can from this disaster, thankfully I'll have left the UK and won't have to deal with the fall out on a daily basis or be governed by UKIP...thats the way the UK is now heading. Socialist rot or right wing rot and paranoia? I'll take the Socialist route everytime.
ATB
Harry
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27 June 2016, 00:11,
#14
RE: Brexit woe
(26 June 2016, 23:26)harrypalmer Wrote: Sadly, common sense did not prevail.

You are right Mary, time to roll up sleeves and try and salvage what we can from this disaster, thankfully I'll have left the UK and won't have to deal with the fall out on a daily basis or be governed by UKIP...thats the way the UK is now heading. Socialist rot or right wing rot and paranoia? I'll take the Socialist route everytime.

Harry, why do "you" feel that common sense has not prevailed, the majority of the population and the (vast) majority of SUK totally disagree with you and see Brexit as a positive move forward for the future??

What has happened is a new dawn for the UK, not a disaster! again perhaps you could expand on why you feel this?

And as for being ruled by UKIP, how could that ever happen? UKIP have a single MP (out of a total of 650 MP's), so UKIP's parliamentary influence is essentially zero! Parts of all the major parties are anti-EU, it is not all down to UKIP.
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27 June 2016, 07:26,
#15
RE: Brexit woe
Be governed by UKIP? They won't even let the poor guy take part in cross-party talks which will negotiate Britain leaving the European Union, and after all the hard work he and his comrades have put in. That's the typical establishment attitude that many who voted Brexit despise.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683388/...referendum
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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27 June 2016, 08:38,
#16
RE: Brexit woe
In my personal view, the awful thing about the Remain crew is that they aree peddling this myth of a European utopia that simply does not exist. I suspect that most of them have never lived in another EU country - probably the best they can say is that they enjoyed a 2 week holiday every year in Ibiza and enjoyed the sun, booze and phone signal for their Facebook links. The youth unemployment rate in most of the EU is terrible, and black marketeering is rife just for people to survive. The UK is the strongest economy in this crap institution, and it is not because of the EU. We are an experienced, democratic trading nation. We have clout and an attitude that says we will prevail.

In the part of France I lived in for years, the political climate has changed dramatically. What started off as a comfortable little mix of Socialist and Conservative is now solidly FN. People are pissed off. Our farmer neighbours despaired of ever moving forward - EU rules and bureaucracy trapped them in a cycle of dependency and regulations. I suspect there are more French than UK citizens who would like to escape, but they did not get a vote. We have been fantastically lucky to be able to exit. And it is not just France. In Spain the youngsters would be lucky to get a decent job at all. Why do you think so many try to get to the UK? They may only get jobs as waiters or suchlike, but that is better than they will get at home. It is ok for those with money - the same everywhere - but what about the normal people who have to graft for their living?

The EU, in my opinion (and experience of living over the Channel) is going to tank big time. The cracks are widening and the plebs are gvetting restless. Better out when it crashes.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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27 June 2016, 08:54,
#17
RE: Brexit woe
The polls show that the French were 63% for out compared to our 52%. Pear in mind it is a poll. So feelings are stronger over there. There have already been moves for a Referendum in France and the Netherlands. We have shown you can escape the EUSSR and others are following.
Skean Dhude
-------------------------------
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Charles Darwin
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27 June 2016, 09:42,
#18
RE: Brexit woe
(27 June 2016, 08:38)MaryN Wrote: In my personal view, the awful thing about the Remain crew is that they aree peddling this myth of a European utopia that simply does not exist. I suspect that most of them have never lived in another EU country - probably the best they can say is that they enjoyed a 2 week holiday every year in Ibiza and enjoyed the sun, booze and phone signal for their Facebook links. The youth unemployment rate in most of the EU is terrible, and black marketeering is rife just for people to survive. The UK is the strongest economy in this crap institution, and it is not because of the EU. We are an experienced, democratic trading nation. We have clout and an attitude that says we will prevail.

In the part of France I lived in for years, the political climate has changed dramatically. What started off as a comfortable little mix of Socialist and Conservative is now solidly FN. People are pissed off. Our farmer neighbours despaired of ever moving forward - EU rules and bureaucracy trapped them in a cycle of dependency and regulations. I suspect there are more French than UK citizens who would like to escape, but they did not get a vote. We have been fantastically lucky to be able to exit. And it is not just France. In Spain the youngsters would be lucky to get a decent job at all. Why do you think so many try to get to the UK? They may only get jobs as waiters or suchlike, but that is better than they will get at home. It is ok for those with money - the same everywhere - but what about the normal people who have to graft for their living?

The EU, in my opinion (and experience of living over the Channel) is going to tank big time. The cracks are widening and the plebs are gvetting restless. Better out when it crashes.

Exactly Mary, it was going to collapse anyway and us being out before the inevitable happens gives us more time to plan and start trading with others nations before that happens.

On another note, I see Mr Obama seems more conciliatory now, stating the special relationship will endure. Of course it will son, you're hardly going to stop selling Yankee dollars to UK Banks in exchange for bonds now are you?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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28 June 2016, 19:19,
#19
RE: Brexit woe
An interesting read in the New York Observer:

http://observer.com/2016/06/understandin...lications/

For all the responsibility of Britain’s political class for this disaster, ultimate blame must fall on Germany, whose roughshod de facto rule over the EU has caused hard feelings in most member states. The unilateral decision by Chancellor Angela Merkel last summer to open the floodgates of her country—and therefore also the EU—to millions of migrants from the east and south has changed Europe already, and promises to bring dramatic social, political, and economic changes in the decades to come...

It’s no wonder that numerous EU states have protested vigorously against Merkel’s grand folly...

Her choice to open Europe’s doors to migrants looks a lot like Hitler’s decision to invade the Soviet Union in 1941. Operation Barbarossa, whose 75th anniversary we just passed, was optimistically launched by Berlin with ideological fervor, yet without serious planning, without taking account of basic politico-economic realities, and without thinking about the many things that could go wrong. And subsequently did.

Merkel did the same last summer, throwing open Europe’s doors in a fit of sunny political hysteria where wishful thinking took the place of pondering what might happen next. She has bequeathed the EU a long-term political crisis that lacks obvious solutions. Increasing numbers of Europeans are no longer willing to pay the bill for German mania—and a majority of Britons are among them.

It will take at least months for Brexit to actually happen, while the economic, political, and social consequences will need decades to be fully realized. However, there are impacts which will be felt sooner than that, above all in the realm of security. Since Britain is a member of NATO as well as (for a bit longer) the EU, plus America’s partner in the vaunted Special Relationship, it’s worth looking at what’s ahead—not least because President Barack Obama felt it was appropriate to wade into the Brexit campaign and plead with British voters not to choose Leave.

The security impacts of Leave were discussed in the months before the referendum, though there was little agreement on what it all meant. Some former heads of British intelligence agencies stated that abandoning the EU would be negative for national security, a point harped on frequently by Remain advocates, who painted Leave as a serious threat to British security.

On the other hand, the EU’s less-than-stellar record in counter-terrorism was not a selling point for Remain, while recent noises out of Brussels about the need for a European Army caused concerns in Britain, especially because any EU military would come at the expense of NATO. Since most EU members (though not Britain) spend so laughably little on defense, anybody has to wonder where the extra funding for any European Army would come from...

Worried pundits on both sides of the Atlantic have joined the chorus. However, there is little evidence for this worried viewpoint. As the former head of British foreign intelligence stated plainly, “The truth about Brexit from a national security perspective is that the cost to Britain would be low.”

The reality is that Britain’s close ties with foreign security services will be unaffected by Brexit in any serious or long-term way. In intelligence terms, the EU hardly matters at all. It has lots of liaison jobs, no end of meetings on intelligence sharing, plus endless retreats for spy agency higher-ups—but the hard work, day in and day out, of intelligence cooperation is still largely a bilateral matter. No matter what happens with Brexit, London’s secret ties with key partners in Paris, Berlin and beyond will continue, no matter what pundits and politicos say...

Britain’s indispensable place in the Anglosphere intelligence alliance is in no way endangered by Brexit. Indeed, after leaving the EU, London may want closer security ties than ever with America and her traditional friends. Britain’s main spy agencies—the Security Service (popularly called MI5), the Secret Intelligence Service (popularly called MI6), and Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ)—are all world-class services that punch above their weight, and they will keep doing their jobs, partnering with dozens of intelligence agencies worldwide, entirely unaffected by the Brexit vote.

The only real stumbling block for our Special Relationship with London is the alarming decline in Britain’s military power over the last decade. In the aftermath of Britain’s robust participation in our losing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, their military has retrenched, resulting in a force lacking in serious power projection. The Royal Navy, for centuries hailed as the Walls of England, is down to just 19 surface combatants, while the British Army has been cut to just four deployable maneuver brigades. The British Army sent a full division to participate in both of America’s Iraq invasions, in 1991 and 2003 – it no longer could do so.

If Brexit causes London to reassess its security needs and thereby increase spending on its conventional forces, that would be welcome. Prime Minister Cameron’s tenure, with its steep cost-cutting, did grave damage to the Ministry of Defence. We can hope his successor will take Britain’s fine but underfunded military more seriously.

Regardless, Britain’s key security partnerships, particularly with her Anglosphere “cousins” (as the spies call each other) will not be harmed by Brexit in any way that’s worth mentioning. The Special Relationship existed long before the European Union appeared, and they seem likely to exist long after the EU is just a memory.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Schindler is a security expert and former National Security Agency analyst and counterintelligence officer. A specialist in espionage and terrorism, he’s also been a Navy officer and a War College professor. He’s published four books and is on Twitter at @20committee.

73 de KE4SKY
In
"Almost Heaven" West Virginia
USA
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28 June 2016, 19:23,
#20
RE: Brexit woe
Oh God, Merkel and her fantasy of being well-loved! I think she quite relishes being called "Mutti" (Mummy) by the refugees. She may not survive another election. Actually, at this rate, the EU is on the way out. Yay!
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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