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Once again...
5 June 2017, 10:32,
#11
RE: Once again...
(5 June 2017, 01:09)harrypalmer Wrote: These people are NOT Muslims FFS.

Lots of Muslims would agree with you Harry.

Lots of Muslims would not.

I've read 8 translations of the Koran and studied most of the Hadith, but whether or not a terrorist's actions take him/her outside Islam is subject to fierce debate amongst Muslims and you and I can only have an opinion on it.

I won't post any more on it. I've long learnt that the only way people realise the truth in this matter is to either discover it themselves through research and dialogue with Muslims, or be close enough to the "action" to see it as self-evident. More and more people are researching this issue and waking up, and more and more people are getting closer to the "action" through the actions of the terrorists or through exposure to their isolated communities. Whether the turn in the tide will be largely through reason or emotion, it will surely come soon. Maybe then we can put enough pressure on the Sunni in the West to cut out the cancerous political ideology of hateful Salafism.
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5 June 2017, 13:34,
#12
RE: Once again...
(5 June 2017, 09:10)Straight Shooter Wrote: BTW Mary 30,000 feet seems over the top ....you do not need to over engineer the method for god sake 5000 feet would get the job done ...more efficient ,less time and best of all ......less fuel.....house keeping girl ....good house keeping ....get with the program ! .
You are, of course, right. 5000 ft would do the job, I would just like to be absolutely certain!
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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5 June 2017, 15:37,
#13
RE: Once again...
(5 June 2017, 08:58)Skean Dhude Wrote: Jonas,

Thanks for the prayers and sympathy but they don't seem to be doing much.

Send guns instead. I have a feeling they will be much more effective.

There's an old country song, "Send lawyers, guns and money, Maw. The shit has hit the fan!"
If at first you don't secede, try, try again!
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5 June 2017, 21:29,
#14
RE: Once again...
An excellent article in the Observer

http://observer.com/2017/06/london-bridg...itish-m15/

There Is No Intelligence Solution to Britain’s Rivers of Blood

After three jihadist attacks in as many months, the United Kingdom is facing a protracted insurgency—not mere terrorism

It’s happened again. This time the target was the heart of London. Last night shortly after 10 p.m., weekend merry-making was shattered when a van careened wildly across London Bridge, running over innocents. After the van came to a halt, three men emerged, brandishing large knives which they proceeded to plunge into as many people as possible...

Eight minutes after the horror started... Armed police arrived at the scene and shot the three terrorists dead.
Now the police are following their standard procedure... Several potential suspects have been taken into custody after police raids in East London, while at present the casualty count stands at seven dead (not including the terrorists) and 48 injured, many seriously.

This atrocity comes only 12 days after the horrific bomb attack in Manchester...which slaughtered 22 innocents—many of them children—and maimed more than a hundred. The killer there, who blew himself up with an improvised explosive device loaded with nuts and bolts to inflict maximum shrapnel wounds, was Salman Abedi, a 22-year-old British national.

...Abedi fits the clichéd profile for homegrown jihadists in the West: a failed assimilation case, a ne’er-do-well dropout who got caught up in drugs and hooliganism, only to turn his life around by embracing the jihad. Abedi’s fervent radicalism made him notorious at his mosque...viewed by his community...as a troublemaker headed for nothing good...

Although the intelligence picture is still emerging, Abedi looks to be directed by ISIS rather than a self-starting terrorist.

Exactly two months before Abedi’s mass-casualty attack, London was the scene of yet another jihadist atrocity. That incident—which in a now-familiar pattern involved a car driving over innocents on a bridge—mercifully claimed only five, not counting the terrorist, who was shot dead by armed police at the gates of Parliament. The killer, who injured 49 people, was 52-year-old Khalid Masood, a native-born Briton with multiple arrests and a history of violent offenses who turned to jihadism as a kind of warped self-help program which ended in murder. By all appearances, Masood was self-radicalized, mainly through the Internet, and had no provable connections to ISIS or any other jihadist groups.

Masood, though known to the British security services due to his violent past, was not assessed as a serious terrorist risk.

In contrast, Salman Abedi appeared on terrorist watch lists, presumably due to his travels to jihad-infested places like Libya, and was known to the Security Service, yet was not under active investigation.

Such missteps lead to inevitable denunciations of “intelligence failure” and calls to “get tough” on terrorism...

However...the reality which European politicians refuse to face is that there is no intelligence solution to the jihadist problem which now exists in Britain and France, which possess large populations of angry Muslims, a certain percentage of whom are truly radical...

Britain’s intelligence and policing operation devoted to counterterrorism is efficient and skilled, yet utterly dwarfed by the scope of the threat. As The Times reported last week, British intelligence estimates that the number of jihadists in the country is a staggering 23,000 people—of whom something like 3,000 pose a potentially imminent threat to public safety.

...at “only” 3,000, that target pool vastly exceeds the capabilities of British intelligence. Although little understood by the public, maintaining effective 24/7 human and technical surveillance is enormously costly in manpower and resources, even for top-notch security services like MI5...it’s severely challenging for British cops and spooks to keep even 300 potential terrorists under constant surveillance—much less 10 times that number. For all their skills, British counterterrorism professionals cannot stop every would-be terrorist. That’s actuarially impossible...

It speaks volumes about the effectiveness of British cops and spooks that more innocent Britons haven’t been murdered by the thousands of jihadists living among them. However, the terrible reality the United Kingdom faces is that mass-casualty terrorist attacks are becoming the “new normal”—another unfortunate fact of life which angry and scared citizens are supposed to take in stride, like bad weather or traffic congestion.

Prime Minister Theresa May’s tough “enough is enough” talk on the heels of the latest London attack, while encouraging, will be difficult to translate into politically achievable policies...

The threat today is less terrorism than a low-grade insurgency...as thousands of jihadists, made proficient killers by ISIS in Syria and Iraq, return home with visions of killing “infidels,” their former neighbors. There will be no parley or negotiation with such mass murderers...

We should expect more guerrilla-like attack...moderate in scale, relatively easy to plan and execute against soft targets, and utterly terrifying to the public. At some point, angry [ordinary people] fed up with their supine political class, will begin to strike back...

Britons trying to remain optimistic note that they survived and eventually defeated Irish nationalist terrorism not all that long ago. But this is a flawed analogy. In the first place, at any given time during the Troubles, the number of active Provisional Irish Republican Army terrorists seldom exceeded a hundred. Moreover, the PIRA was a “normal” terrorist group with rational political motives, not a religiously-motivated death cult, and it generally eschewed killing civilians for its own sake. Indeed, atrocities like the 1987 Enniskillen attack, which murdered 10 innocents, proved a black mark for the group, even among staunch republicans. Therefore, comparing the PIRA to ISIS and its murderous Western wannabes isn’t much help to practical counterterrorism...

If Britain doesn’t soon devise tough countermeasures to its vast domestic jihadism problem, many of its cities may come to resemble Northern Ireland a generation ago, with armed soldiers in battle gear patrolling the streets as “aid to civil power” while enforcing frequent security checks on average citizens with the aim of stopping terrorists.

Britain’s political class, on all sides, has ignored this problem for years—indeed decades—and now it faces a security nightmare without any palatable solutions. They were warned many times where this was leading, to no avail.

In perhaps the most infamous case, nearly a half-century ago, Enoch Powell, a free-speaking Conservative MP gave an immediately notorious speech on rising immigration to Britain and its consequences. By any accounts a remarkable figure—among his accomplishments, Powell enlisted in the British Army as a private at the beginning of the Second World War and by 1945 was a one-star general—he was a classical scholar, so his speech in April 1968 referenced the ancients. As he memorably concluded about the instability he saw coming:

As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see “the River Tiber foaming with much blood”…Only resolute and urgent action will avert it even now. Whether there will be the public will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.

Polite society turned its back on Powell after that speech, which was castigated as racist and antediluvian, and he became a pariah. However, 49 years later, the blood in British streets which he prophesied has come to pass, and it’s difficult to say Powell was wrong in his essential point. All the same, were he alive today (he died in 1998), Enoch Powell was enough of a realist that he would likely caution political elites in London that they must focus on the problems at hand—not the problems they would prefer to deal with. If they do not, low-grade jihadist insurgency will transform daily life for many Britons, not to mention provoking counter-violence which may be even worse.

73 de KE4SKY
In
"Almost Heaven" West Virginia
USA
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6 June 2017, 15:04,
#15
RE: Once again...
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/06/...ge-attack/

FGM-Linked Muslim Sect Given First Chance to Lay Flowers at London Attack Vigil
by CHRIS TOMLINSON5 Jun 20177750

Thousands of Londoners gathered Monday in a park near London’s Tower Bridge to express grief over the deaths of those killed by radical Islamic terrorists on Saturday evening.
The vigil, led by London mayor Sadiq Khan, saw a procession of Muslims given the opportunity to first, and separately, lay flowers at the scene.

While the group of men first laid flowers, other Britons and attendees were held behind barriers.

The group is believed to have been from the Bohra sect of Islam, perhaps best known for their adherence to the barbaric practice of female genital mutilation.

Mr. Khan was joined by several other major political figures including Home Secretary Amber Rudd of the Conservative Party and Labour Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott. Thousands of others also attended the event which started at 6pm in Potters Fields Park along the river Thames.

The Guardian reports:

More than 130 imams and Muslim religious leaders have said they will refuse to say funeral prayers for the perpetrators of Saturday’s attack in London.

In a highly unusual move, Muslim religious figures from across the country and from different schools of Islam said their pain at the suffering of the victims and their families led them to refuse to perform the traditional Islamic prayer – a ritual normally performed for every Muslim regardless of their actions. They called on others to do the same.

Photo By Rachel Megawhat/Breitbart London

Mayor Khan spoke at the vigil saying, “We stand together tonight to honour the memories of the innocent lives lost and the people injured in the barbaric attack on our city on Saturday night.”

“London stands in defiance against this cowardly attack on our city, our people, our values and our way of life,” he said adding, “as Mayor of London, I want to send a clear message to the sick and evil extremists who commit these hideous crimes. We will defeat you. You will not win.”

Also in attendance were senior officials from the Metropolitan Police, British Transport Police, London Ambulance Service and London Fire Brigade.
If at first you don't secede, try, try again!
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