I need to literally half the weight of my full on relocation by biped bag. When combined with various additions it is only just carryable. Ok it can be carried and it is sure nice to have all the personal kit, but after a serious rethink, I estimate the weight could be a major detrement to cross country navigation. It would be ok having a full load if safely yomping to a destination, but the problem is, I wouldn't know if it was going to be a safe journey or not. If a threat occurred, then I would not be able to run far or have any great dexterity. Dumping the full pack would be critically time consuming and if not recoverable could spell disaster. Any physical assault would be very hampered by the full load. I would also be a more obvious target for investigation.
It is not the same for us as for the military, which is often a role model. We do not have an organised infrastructure to back us up. There will likely be no guarantee of mechanised transport pick up further down the road. No viable organised kit or food resupply. Probably no squad of buddies to share the load out or take the slack due to injury etc. What about if you have a minor injury or a temporary illness - like a nasty common cold. This could make a heavy load unmanageable.
I am having a serious rethink and relegating much kit to a secondary bag for mechanised transport or bugging in. I am going to make a hand trailer for use whilst walking, but there has to be no valuable kit carried on this due to a definite possibility this may have to be abandoned under duress or to keep a low profile. It may be more useful for scavanged items enroute if at all?
I am going to be looking at aquiring a smaller pack and do I really need a poncho AND bivi in our temperate climate etc? Some of the military kit is far too heavy to carry it all. OOOOU.. decisions decisions. It is v.hard to make some. :-) TL (I wouldn't mind a section for advice & tips on super lightweight loadouts/kit - this thread will get lost all too soon)
Welcome to the dark-side!!!
A lot of people take the view that sneaky and bugging out early will keep them safe, which is probably will. But it seems we have a similar mindframe.
I'm massively looking into building a 7day to 10day winter ultra-light backpacking kit. Which would also make a fitting U-L BOB.
The main things with weight are the big 3, Tent, Sleeping Bag, Backpack.
1. Tent....screw that! I'm going ponchos (yes, plural. I'm rocking 2 of them) which will make up my overhead shelter. I figured a tent was there to stop wind and rain. Other than that, it really doesn't do much. So as long as I have a reasonably well sheltered area, and the ability to pitch the ponchos.....same outcome, 1/4 the weight.
2. Sleeping Bag.....Mine is an ultra light 2 season beast....along with many liners. No point having just 1 hefting 4 season bag. The liners make a single bag become multi seasonal. Otherwise you'd be wasting 3 out of 4 seasons. Also, you'd need loads of liners to make a 1 season good for winter. Best off with a reasonable 2 season, then bagging it up. That'll also make it nice and clean by changing around the liners and washing the sweat and all that off.
3. Bag. This is one part where going light can be a waste. No point chopping half your bag up! You'll end up needing what you've chopped off.
The other things to save weight on are things like water. Only carry 1.5 litres, max. You'll find more water (it's the UK, there's loads of water everywhere) so all you need is a filter or something like that. I have water purifier tablets and am getting a filter for my camalbak. That will provide me with over 800 litres of drinkable water.
Next heaviest item is food. Actually, depending on the food you carry, it can be as heavy as a tent. There is a super clever Scythe13 trick to help deal with that one....a book or 2! Foraging, or Food For Free. Those books can provide all the food you need for the rest of your life. But anyway, I like to carry a bit of food anyway, just in case. I stick to high calories, high flavour, long sell by date, and good vitamins/minerals. To me that says 1 thing.....CHOCOLATE!!! But damn is it heavy. I also stock up on plenty of beef jerky for the protein. Let's be fair, I'll be in the woods for up to 10 days, so the books will be very helpful.
Next up comes the good old cooking part. Knife, fork, spoon...or just get 2 sticks and make chop-sticks? Worked for me on a desert island for 5 weeks. But the real weight part is the pans and all that. If you have a tranjia set, you have good taste, but not good weight capacities. Those things are heavy! Also, are you really going to be cooking with 2 pots at the same time? You're best off with an ultralight cooker (usually around the £25 mark) and a couple of smallish gas cans. You want enough gas to cook at least 1 warm meal a day. I like to have breakfast and dinner warm when I'm out in the woods or on a cliff.
Now comes clothing. Have a spare set of thermals, and underwear. Maybe an extra pair of trousers. Other than that, you're looking at loads of weight and space constraints.
Then it's smaller things like FAK (First Aid Kit), Torch, Knives, and things like that. Those are best kept if they are multi-use. If not....be careful about whether they are a luxury or not.
And on a final note....Space-Blankets!!!! I love them!!! Always have a few of them around.
This is good info. I think we could easily develop this thread. TL. More later when I am awake.....
Well the army have a quick release bergan system so when bumped they drop the bergan retaining fighting order kit, they then hide or come back for the kit later.
If you realy do need all the kit, either stash it along the route to your bol, or at your bol if you only have the main one to go to, but if you have to bug out to a different location, you potentialy loose the kit youve stashed.
If you dont and some of its luxuries, well think hard about what do you realy need and what dont.
1)what about a bike trailer? use it to put your bergan in and pull it?
2)wheely suitcase then take out your bergan when you have too.
3) two skate boards strapped together and your bergan strapped on them.
This guy can pull 500lbs in a trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjLGq1ClH74
Thankyou for that Mike. I have already discounted the army method of dumping the bergen and hoping to get back to it later. Generally in the military you would be in a squad and would attempt to fight through any ambush and being in a group would have a bigger chance of organising a return for the dumped bergen or to share any gear not lost. I think as a lone traveller with no scouts out in front then there may be no time to drop a bergen if a surprise is encountered and the chances of being able to come back later to recover the bergen are mixed - especially when you consider someone else may well beat you to it. I have been thinking that a pack light enough and compact enough to be able to leggit if necessary or to enable an efficient fighting response might be the best solution. Having a trailer to pull is of dubious merit. Yes it enables you to carry a lot of kit, but it is not good for high mobility, you can not jump over walls with it easily etc. Also if you have to ditch it, then you may lose all the kit on it, so I would not carry anything important on it. Also it would make any watchers look twice. Skateboard wheels make a lot of noise on metalled surfaces. I have recently purchased from an autojumble, a pair of 8inch spoked wheelchair front wheels with solid rubber tyres. These have high quality roller bearings and the tyres are fairly indestructable. I will make this into a hand cart but I am not sure of its usefulness if travelling by oneself in this crowded country. Wheely suitcases are very noisy and not very ergonomic. The idea is a lightweight serious long term bug out load for real cross country use. I don't envisage running through an ambush with a wheely suitcase in tow - preferably nothing in tow would be better.
Any more ideas or points of view are most welcome.... Regards, TL
Strap it to a goat.......
or catch yourself a chav and put reigns on...
(31 March 2012, 12:09)mikebratcher69 Wrote: [ -> ]Strap it to a goat.......
or catch yourself a chav and put reigns on...
Very Funny!
I used the Meths burner from my Triaga stove and made a telescopic type can to sit on it and the 2nd half sits on top as a food container. A gas lighter & a few emergency Hexi blocks sit inside when closed up. It is far lighter & superbly more compact than the triaga stove was. Thats 1 bit of kit minuteurised. Now for the rest.
The Rucksack has 2 major flaws. Even though it is a very good quality & rugged one, it is far too heavy. It weighs in at approx 3.25 kilos on its own!!! Also, the large padded hip belt makes wearing any other webbing style belt & having pouches on it and other gear like knives or axes etc is just not really possible. The ruck is an 88litre one and after weighing it up, I have decided to look for something around the 40 to 50 litre mark and without a seriously chunky hip belt. Preferably one of those that stows easily out of the way if not required.
Looking on ebay, I could actually buy an obselete Warsaw pact rucksack at about 40 litres that is just a robust canvas rectangular bag with webbing straps. Not particularily comfortable, but the shoulder straps could be fitted with extra padding and molle type hoops & other stuff could be added. Ok, so it won't be the latest cordura water repellent materials, which by the way also need an overcover to guarantee waterproofness, but I suppose all I have to do is that - fit a cheap enough waterproof cover/bag over the top if it rains. The strapping arrangement means it would ride higher and leave the waist free for more critical items of personal kit. Just like the modern infantry patrol/fighting set up. In fact this type of Warsaw pact bag I am on about, does not look much different in size or shape to the latest uber patrol molle packs that are 40 or 50 litres & cost about £135 on ebay. The warsaw pact one costs £9.95 and dosn't have any plastic clips or zips to break. Ummmm...
This is my ultra-light BOB
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/quasar-30-p178585
It's shockingly small, but I'll bet money there are very few people that can shift as far or as fast with their BOB's as I can with mine.
I know I'm a pretty big guy, so I can easily carry a bigger bag. But I'm happy to have this one and can shift really well with it.
The main contents of my bag are just those things that provide for life. Things like, shelter, warmth, water capabilities, sleeping capabilities, food and food finding, first aid, energy and recovery, fire capabilities, light (torches etc) and building/protection (knives), as well as rescue/navigation capabilities (whistle, compass, map, etc), and various sanitary items like TP and soap.
The things I'm going to be adding are, a mini stove with tiny gas cylinder (2-3 meals use), sun glasses, and I'll probably add a small undercarry bag that clips on, where I'll put my sleeping mat, to free up more internal space. But I'll probably do a better breakdown of my U-L BOB system.
I also have a CamalBak Mule as my GHB.
http://earlsbicyclestore.com/product/cam...5228-1.htm
When bugging out, I'll probably have both bags. But even with that, I'm still able to move at a good rate for a pretty decent amount of time. The main thing about the Mule, is the water storage. If need be, I'd drop that and just go. Wouldn't have a problem. I wouldn't even come back for it. I consider it to be a bonus bag, when I have my BOB. If I bug out with my BOB and GHB, then it allows me more time to sort out water, as well as providing a couple more space blankets, another emergency shelter, and that kind of thing. But really, if I lost it....no problem. The BOB has everything I need for about a week.
(3 April 2012, 17:32)Scythe13 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll probably add a small undercarry bag that clips on, where I'll put my sleeping mat, to free up more internal space. But I'll probably do a better breakdown of my U-L BOB system.
Or alternatively we can pretend I never said that.......I've not checked how to close it properly, and now it takes up 50% less space!!! I don't feel like a total c**k!!!
HAHA.
i have a GHB, i have managed to keep the weight down on that by keeping it small, no sleeping bags but about 5 foil blankets, no tents but lightweight plastic shelters...they look like plastic tents but are very light, i keep button compasses and small lightweight binoculars...stuff like that.