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The well-fed survivalist family won't look so "grey" when everyone else nearby is emaciated and starving... Unless they ration the food very rigidly,

I'll have you know the sight of me, a 200lb man in stockings and suspenders waving an axe about has the amazing ability of keeping virtually everybody away...... should be everybodys survival strategy if you ask me....

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(13 October 2011, 19:02)Reality Jones Wrote: [ -> ]I am fully aware of what I can and will do to protect myself and those I care about.

As you rightly say it's those that have already lived a life of violence that cause the most concern. For most of us it will take a bit of time to adjust fully to the new violent world we find ourselves in but for a percentage of the population it will be business as usual.
Look at the violence during the recent riots. I have a lot of friends who live in Croydon and they were telling me the stuff that didn't make it on to the news or into the papers. People were being mugged at knife point and made to strip naked in the street, then the muggers were taking pictures of their naked terrified victims with their mobile phones.
A complete breakdown of society with little or no police or army presence is just another day at the office for these kind of people.
If, or should I say when, the shit hits the fan, for scum like that it's going to be like a million holidays have come at once and they've won the lottery all at the same time.
Me? I'm like a coiled spring waiting to go off, god help any man that gets in my way and tries to take what's mine.

Well said, here here and all that.

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(11 October 2011, 19:18)Dana Wrote: [ -> ]I agree up to a point of being a 'grey man', especially whilst in the midst of prepping and maybe the early stages of a scenario, but it may come a time when you have to become extremely overt in nature to the point of being outwardly aggressive or non-friendly to strangers.

This is more true if your survival group becomes a largeish group as they are hard to hide ..... think Tribal.

yep I agree, where we live in manchester we have the usual gang troubles but if you stand up to most they usualy buckle anf fall, and it does your reputation localy no harm to be known as a nutter and to keep clear.
Of course armed gamgs are a different matter, you just have to haver the bigger knife etc..

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(24 October 2011, 19:29)NorthernRaider Wrote: [ -> ]My take on the Grey Man Philosophy

Adopting the GREY MAN Philosophy
© 2011 Northern Raider / UKSG 1999
Part one The Problem

In many occasions over recent years many governments (AUS/UK/US
especially) have attempted to combat terrorism by implementing laws that too
often erode the personal freedoms and civil rights of the general public.
The laws in theory are to help the government gather information and
intelligence on people THEY consider COULD be threats to the state or law
and order.

They have done such things as limit or even ban the ownership of fire arms to
law abiding members of the public, Introduced laws that circumvent the
concept of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. In the UK they wanted to
hold “SUSPECTS” up to 3 months without trial or charge, they tried to get
permission to wiretap or monitor peoples private communications WITHOUT
GOOD REASON.

In some notable cases people have been prosecuted on multiple occasions
for holding certain beliefs that the state disagrees with such as saying “Many
parts of the UK’s Asian community are systematically grooming and abusing
young white girls”

The political activist who said those words was acting on information fed back
to him from multiple parts of the UK, A TV station also discovered this to be
happening. But for expressing those words he was hounded by the
EQUALITIES COMMISION and taken to court for restating those beliefs, the
TV station was banned from airing its findings. He was cleared on all counts
on at every trial. He spoke words the government did not like as it tried to
portray Britain and a harmonious balanced multi cultural society, they
hounded him and tried to portray him as a “CRIMINAL” . Yet in the last week
it transpires ALL of what he said was true and a senior former government
minister and two very senior police officers have admitted publicly the abuse
and grooming IS happening.

In the US many American people believe the hastily introduced “ Patriot Act”
is being used and abused be government officers to erode rights and
liberties, and the fact that the nation held in esteem globally as being the good
guys when it comes to justice are actually torturing suspects and holding them
illegally in foreign prisons is unjust.

Many other such examples exist but the point I am trying to make is What if
the government or one of its agencies suddenly decides your Group, Church,
COLLECTIVE, City, State, business or community are “Possible criminal or
terrorist organisations?” ( Remember Randy Weaver?)

Environmental activists, Fuel price protestors, Anti war activists, Certain
Church groups, Militia groups, Home Education Groups, etc have ALL been
treated as possible terror groups in the very recent past.

Currently it is just far too easy for law abiding citizens to be suddenly
designated as Anti social / Anti British or American / Criminal activists or
possible terrorists. Indeed since 2001 the USA has encouraged its citizens to
keep and maintain emergency / disaster kits to sustain the people for 72
hours up to 6 weeks. The UK finally followed suit after decades of calling any
citizen who built retreats or stored food as hoarders and black marketers, BUT
if suddenly there was food or fuel shortages hitting the UK or US just how
long before the government decided privately held fuel and food supplies was
hoarding AGAIN and make ILLEGAL ?

Perhaps you are part of the community either side of the Atlantic that feels
both the US and Europe have reached maximum sustainable population
levels and object to any more migrants on numerical grounds or the affect
foreign cultures are having upon your own indigenous culture?. Trouble is
both sides of the Atlantic are very many power liberal thinking politicians who
feel anyone and everyone should be welcomed into your countries and fed,
clothed and housed at your tax payers expense. Equally there are many right
wing big businessmen who want plenty of cheap migrant none union workers
to come to help keep wages down.

Your desire to keep the status quo and to protect your homeland, culture,
environment and faith group makes YOU their enemy, and given the chance
they will twist the law to have you classed as a criminal or enemy of the state.

Its just too easy for survivalists and preppers to be classed as “Criminals” by
those in power who disagree with our free spirited and independent lifestyle.

Adopting the GREY MAN Philosophy
Part two a Partial Answer

I am not going to even attempt to suggest I have a one size fits all answer
because I don’t have one, but I can offer some advice on how to remain as
low on official radar as possible.

Wise preppers don’t plan on bugging out by foot from inner city areas dressed
as Rambo in full cammos and carrying a Mini 14, or plan on wandering round
the boonies in hunters orange jackets. Rather they choose to dress as boring,
drab, unattractive and uninteresting as possible to the authorities and
predatory gangs as they leave town, and to blend into the countryside as
much as possible when out in the boonies. They become Grey men doing
their utmost to go unnoticed as possible.

Equally the enlightened survivalists Bug Out Vehicle does not look like
something out of a Mad Max movie or like some Paris Dakar Rally competitor.
Their vehicles are modified and customised to give the extra capacity and
capability they carry extra fuel and water, better ground clearance ,food
storage, etc but when possible it is fitted WITHIN the vehicle so as to make it
look as normal and bland as the rest of the wheels in commuterville. There
vehicles become grey men’s wheels, unappealing low key as possible.

There is nothing governments like more than facts, figures, statistics and
information on its people for tax gathering, pension planning, city utility
planning, etc. But as this world gets ever more crowded, violent and hostile
the governments also like to gather ever more information that can be used to
control and manipulated people, this can be very bad for preppers and
survivalists wishing to live on the edge of organised and micro managed
society.

Some authorities like to record what LIBRARY books people of interest read,
they like nothing more than seeing which books and manuals you have
bought from ONLINE BOOKSELLERS. Bulk purchased a load of reloading
gear? You should have paid cash for it because the itemised sales receipt is
in the system, Buy little and often and pay cash.

The same common sense approach should be applied to buying food and fuel
for your stockpile and cache, Buy little and often and pay cash when possible
and buy from different stores. For heavens sake never use customer loyalty
points cards as you simply provide TPTB a ready made list of all you have
purchased for the last few years.

Generally if you buy online or with a credit card you are telling anyone who
wants to know what you bought , when you bought it and how much of it you
bought, That’s never a good thing for preppers.

For my fellow Brits do you REALLY need to keep a firearm?, As soon as you
submit the application for an FAC you become a person on interest to the
authorities, they will check your medical history to see if you have any loonatic
tendencies. They will flag your address on the database to be visited if TSHTF
to seize your guns, and whilst they are there you can be sure they will
rummage about look and possible find your supplies, You need to weigh up
your need for a firearm for hunting after TSHTF and the risk you face in the
authorities clearing you out when you need it most. I chose not to bother with
a gun the risks were just to great for me.

Some areas even keep a list of 4x4 vehicles being kept so they can be
requisitioned by the authorities in an emergency. You need to remain legally
list as your vehicles owner, but you need to think about moving the vehicle to
some other location if there is a likelihood in say a massive flood or blizzard
because the cops may come for your 4x4. Again don’t let the vehicle look like
its an all singing all dancing expedition vehicle as you can be sure jealous
eyes are watching , Keep the Winch, sand mats, roof tent, sand mats and hi
lift jacks hidden when possible until you absolutely need to deploy them.

As mentioned briefly in above, try and choose the type and colour of your BO
Kits clothing and baggage as drab and unappealing as possible, don’t look
like Rambo in the city and don’t broadcast your position with bright colours in
the countryside. Don’t wave expensive kit around, Conceal your radios, IPODs,
Micro laptops, and other goodies from anyone not part of your group.

To summarise, you need to become the most uninteresting, unthreatening
and unappealing person possible, not only to the predatory scum but also the
authorities. And NEVER become a refugee in the care of the government
because they WILL redistribute YOUR stuff among more “needy” people,
usually themselves who have the role of caring for you.
NR

Why should we prepared be labeled as a hoarder or black marketeer?
You'd think the government would atualy welcome the idea of independent subjects, who they dont need to bother with should the shtf.
Im sure theres nothing more the government would like than a return to the good old days of uneducated people toiling on the land, paying taxes and shutting up and not saying boo to their masters or betters.
There isn't one thing wrong with being a prepper, we're independant souls, but you'll notice most people dont like independant non conforming folk.
Look at the old women that were burned as witches because the knew herbal ways...Kenneth Eames that'd be you...So in the aftermath Kenneth if you see a mob running towards you with a box of matches I'd run if I were you!!!

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Not that your an old lady Kenneth....

Quote:You'd think the government would atualy welcome the idea of independent subjects

The problem is that some 'survivalist types' are anarchists who want to overthrow the government. Understandably the government is concerned about these people and just as Muslim extremists cause all Muslims to fall under suspicion, "survivalist extremists" get us all a little more than average government attention.

Skvez,

If that was the reason they would target and destroy. They simply want us to follow them blindly and anyone that thinks wants to get a good government.

(15 November 2011, 11:58)Skvez Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:You'd think the government would atualy welcome the idea of independent subjects

The problem is that some 'survivalist types' are anarchists who want to overthrow the government. Understandably the government is concerned about these people and just as Muslim extremists cause all Muslims to fall under suspicion, "survivalist extremists" get us all a little more than average government attention.

You can not easily control and manipulate a peoples who are free thinking individualists who believe in self reliance and self sufficieny. The UK govt still smarts over a certain bunch of colonials in New England in 1776. Many laws such as the enclosure act in the 1800 and the gun control laws of the 90s are specifically set up to ensure the ruling social elite remain that way.

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Whats that Merkin phrase " He who give up his liberty for some sense of temporary security deserves neither liberty nor security. The "" Welfare"" state has been a complete and total disaster for the UK as its lets the Brit and European socialists destroy more and more of our rights and liberties.

My sentiments exactly. With regard to herbalists and witches I do hope it will not take long to die. However, I'll lay a heavy curse and spell upon the perpetrators. Kenneth Eames.

NorthernRaider,
I'll also add my agreement to Kenneth's sentiments. It feels like a straight-jacket on the reasonable entitlement of the individual, not that I support the human Rights law unequivocally either.
Brian

I think around here you could call every one "grey" AKA in Biker circles as "straights", every one looks the same, acts the same, and are as boring as hell! there is not one of them that have anything to recommend them and no one of them has got the sense to stock up on food even just for the winter months, they all live from one shopping trip to the next. boring little people with their boring little lives.

(16 November 2011, 14:51)Brian Wrote: [ -> ]NorthernRaider,
I'll also add my agreement to Kenneth's sentiments. It feels like a straight-jacket on the reasonable entitlement of the individual, not that I support the human Rights law unequivocally either.
Brian

Those loss of freedoms, liberties etc are only going to get ever more severe if the EU or Labour / Socialists ever get their collective way.

Very true. The EU is one of the greatest threats what little liberty is left in the UK and all three main parties pursue only slightly different shades of Socialism.
Roll-on a referendum on membership of the EU, if it ever takes place.