Is it just me, or are the Russians really starting to lose the plot?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...25529.html
If this article was written in one of the tabloids I'd have just dismissed it out of hand, but some of the rhetoric coming out of Russia these days, such as this article and the previous reports about the use of Nuclear Weapons being put onto standby during the Crimea Conflict, really do make it seem like we are being transported back to the 1960's
haven't the Russians always been paranoid? sort of goes with the territory.
What would you expect ? .. the Americans were in a similar position in..Cuba in the sixties ...who came up with a plan to step back from the brink......or else JFK....who is it that looks for peace processes....PUTIN ....not Cameron or Obama ...they stayed away from the Minsk agreement, in any event the Indy is not that independent DEV.....Russia ...bad.....USA ....good ...same old BS ....they need to blame and direct us to say yep its them russians again....all because the western banking system is buggered , there are two ways out....a total reset of all world currencies backed by a new global gold standard ...or war.....history says WAR...there is more profit for the few and a shit load of pain and suffering for .....guess who....yeah ...US
It's not paranoia if it is true.
They ain't falling into line as they are told to do so they are being pushed. Our side being namby pamby don't know what a real thug can do.
History has proven that Cuba was not the personal face down that it was promoted to be. The resolution of the Cuban crisis was a behind the scenes diplomatic trade of missile sites in Turkey, on the Russian border, for missile sites in Cuba.
The western powers also learned that the Soviets had much better surface to air missile systems than we did and for the first time realized that the Soviets were manufacturing enough of their new AK rifles to export them in mass to arm entire nations.
As for the present, Russia is simply doing what Russia does when the chance is presented. They are seeking a warm water port, which has been their goal for 1000 years. They are conducting activities in places that 30 years ago would have been considered Russian internal politics, not world politics.
Look back to the Chech uprising, the Hungarian uprising, the treatment of Poland or any other resistance to Soviet influence during the 1950s and 1960s. What is happening today is mild compared to their actions in the past. 50 years ago they would have simply moved a couple of armor divisions in and been done with the job and told the US, GB and the UN to go F-off.
Worry over sanctions??? Back then it was illegal to buy anything from them anyway, not just sanctioned goods!
No one is going to do anything to the Russians. They know that as long as they are taking small chunks of property they have owned in the past no one is going to risk even a limited action against them.
As for the nuclear option???
You thought that had gone away???
The best use for nukes is against build ups of troops as they mass for invasion and against surface naval fleets. The buildup of troops for invasion, as we did in GB during WW2, against a nuke holding nation is an impossibility.
We lived for an entire generation with nuclear power being used as a social/political tool, and now it is back on the tool bench. But then, many of the people alive today do not remember that, and the shock is terrifying.
In my ignorance, why would use a nuke against something as small as a surface naval ship?
Surely one of these new generation Russian Cruise missiles, with a conventional war head, would be more than enough?
You're absolutely right, Dev, one of the very modern missiles would be more than adequate for a small surface naval ship. They are very powerful and can be aimed and fired from tremendous distances. The best use for nukes would be above large built-up areas for maximum destruction of humanity. (OH is asking me why I want to know this).
(2 April 2015, 19:29)Devonian Wrote: [ -> ]In my ignorance, why would use a nuke against something as small as a surface naval ship?
Surely one of these new generation Russian Cruise missiles, with a conventional war head, would be more than enough?
I did not say "ship", I said "fleet".
When we send a carrier to a remote location to reinforce an action or display power we do not just send a carrier, we send a "carrier task force". There are all sorts of ships that go along with such things ad even the obsolete main battleships travel with escorts, fuel tenders and supply trains.
If one looks back at the early testing of nukes they will find that some of the earliest testing was done in places where a large number of ships could be anchored and examined after the event. One of the first concerns was protecting the fleets.
Remember when Argentina took out the British cruiser with the air to surface missile in the Falklands? What if they had possession of an atomic warhead, took out the whole fleet and all troops present and did it 30,000 feet above ground without ever hitting a specific target?
Placing the nukes on the table by reminding the west that Russia still has them changes the stakes from "conventional being enough to scare you" to "willing to engage in the ultimate overkill if it seems we are going to lose".
The Russians do not think like the British, or the Americans either. They have no natural borders and their history is one of invasion and oppression by the invaders. They trust no one and expect invasion by any and all foes. They know the cost of that invasion will be thousands of Russians that die for their mother country.
They are not just pessimists, they are fatalists.
(3 April 2015, 00:22)Mortblanc Wrote: [ -> ]I did not say "ship", I said "fleet".
I was thinking more about the article in the paper:
"The Russian ambassador in Copenhagen says Danish warships would become 'targets for Russian nuclear missiles"
One thing that has been put out there the last decade....is TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS ...what,s that about ??...could this mean SMALL !......" I,m only little ....look see ...I don,t do major damage really.... only well targeted pin pointed stuff " ....nothing for you to worry about....honest !! a good way for their use to be quietly introduced and excepted on a global scale......NOTHING would surprise me with the idiots running the show......from any side........ most of which are to dumb to have a headache