+- Survival UK Forums (http://forum.survivaluk.net)
+-- Forum: Discussion Area (http://forum.survivaluk.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Forum: Rebuilding Society (http://forum.survivaluk.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=52)
+--- Thread: Commuity - What does it take? (/showthread.php?tid=6179)
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - bigpaul - 16 October 2013
(16 October 2013, 15:57)Scythe13 Wrote:nah, i'll be peeling the veg!!(16 October 2013, 13:37)bigpaul Wrote: even oldies would have their uses, even if they cant do manual labour, you need someone to peel the veg, make clothes, sew curtains, cooking.
HAHA, I have this image of BP knitting up a pair of curtains! hahahaha.
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - Spuzzana - 16 October 2013
Thanks Charles yet another good link to information.
Quote: Scythe13
List of 'required' skills for community to function.
Farming
Shelter Building
General Labour
Medical
Military/Militia
Clothing
Engineer (to come up with solutions to problems)
Education
Peace Keeping (think police, judge, etc)
Mechanic (if going higher tech)
Great this is more or less the list I had in mind of the skills that would be needed.
They can be broken down into the four areas:
Builders
Shelter Building
General Labour
Carers
Medical
Clothing
Workers
Farming
Engineer (to come up with solutions to problems)
Mechanic (if going higher tech)
Defenders
Peace Keeping (think police, judge, etc)
Military/Militia
Basic education (reading, writing, mathematics).
Yes I agree that basic education is good to have. However, reality is there are a growing number of people around the globe who do not have access to education or as in this country did not gain much in the way of educational skills. The larger portion live in communities and manage very, very well by using their innate capabilities. E.G. My brother in law is not able to read, write or do maths in any way that we would recognise as being educated. Give him a set of tools, spanners etc and your broken vehicle. Within a few hours he will have fixed it. His job is to drive machines in the building industry. Ask him to dig that trench, dig that hole to xyz specs and he will do it without any measuring equipment. How he does it, I do not have the faintest idea. How he is able to take an engine apart fix the problem and put it back together beats me.
Physical combat – We all need to think like women. Strike first then go into remorse if you have made a mistake other wise you will be the one that is dead. When it comes to martial arts, my sensei always hammered that into me.
Quote: bigpaul paraphrased
first of all you need people WILLING to be part of your community….you have to pick your community members with care and not just take ALL COMERS….or you have enough people for the resources you have already….can you afford to turn people away who then know where your community is located….how do you deal with theft from the community? or maybe even worse crimes?
All very good points BP and yes you can come and knit curtains and peel the vegies
Would just like to highlight....first of all you need people WILLING to be part of your community.
and change it slightly to read....first of all you need people WILLING to be part of a community.
It may not be a community that any of us wishes to put together. However, at some stage humans will reorganise into communities if they have not set out with that in mind to start with.
There is just one area that has not been mentioned. Exchange systems so that each person receives a fair share for their efforts.
So how does each person received their share for their labours for the good of the community?
My thoughts are along the lines of WIR alternative banking system that was adopted in Switzerland in 1934. It has come under heavy attack in terms of legislation in attempts to make it conform to international banking regulations and practices in recent years. What they are trying to do is turn WIR into another form of usury which is completely against the principles the currency was set up for.
Another alternative currency that was successful for a number of years was the Argentinian alternative currency when the country suffered severe internal problems. I believe this currency was called Petron.
Waiting for The End of Money and the Future of Civilization
Greco, Thomas H. to arrive as this subject is covered fully in the book.
So what next? What else does a community need to have in order to be cohesive and function?
My thoughts are along the lines of land and somewhere to grow sufficient food to last all year round with some surplus.
Preferably the food growing would be using alternative growing systems as put forward by Rick Austin with his "Secret Garden of Survival". YOU don't need any herbicides, pesticides or insecticides because nature does it for you. In any case after TEOTWAWKI you would not be able to obtain such chemicals, so you would be dependant on nature to provide.
Its very impressive at how small an area is needed to grow everything you need to feed the average family of 4.5 people. Half an acre for 4-5 people.
Regarding land - should this be owned by a single person? Preferably not. The better way forwards would be under a "Community Land Trust". That way everyone has a say in what happens and the running of the property. No one person can step up and be the leader and tell everyone else what to do because everyone is the leader.
Any comments on these ideas?
For information only. There is a sizeable area of woodland available 55.3 acres for £100,000 in Mid Wales. This has the potential of being a suitable place to hole up and develop a series of Secret Gardens of Survival that could support a reasonable community of 20-30 people.
It has several steams running onto the land which backs onto steep hillsides to the north. Principally the land has a south facing aspect. This is important in terms of natural daylight for a hidden food garden.
What thoughts if any on land?
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - Steve - 17 October 2013
(16 October 2013, 23:57)Spuzzana Wrote: What thoughts if any on land?
My thought is that you would have to work extremely hard to feed five people on half an acre, most meat and dairy products would be off the menu. Maybe you could keep a few ducks, they can be trained to eat slugs, and some chickens. Half an acre is about one third of a football pitch.
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - Skean Dhude - 17 October 2013
Would it be possible without modern, powered, farming techniques to feed 5 people on half and acre and keep them fit and healthy?
I could see it if we used aquaponics, vertical gardening etc. but I guessed by the comments you are not talking about using either of those.
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - Rush2112 - 17 October 2013
(16 October 2013, 23:57)Spuzzana Wrote: Regarding land - should this be owned by a single person? Preferably not. The better way forwards would be under a "Community Land Trust". That way everyone has a say in what happens and the running of the property. No one person can step up and be the leader and tell everyone else what to do because everyone is the leader.
Any comments on these ideas?
I'd rather split up the "community land" into small parcels for each family, and each be responsible for their own.
IMO, human nature being what it is, most people don't work effectively without leadership of some sort. Everyone being a leader sounds like not much will get done. just my thoughts.
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - Skean Dhude - 17 October 2013
Community Land Trust sounds very like the Socialist System that is just about to bring this entire planet to its knees.
To me the only way is independent units with everyone providing for themselves and barting for what they are short of. It is the only way.
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - Highlander - 17 October 2013
(17 October 2013, 12:35)Skean Dhude Wrote: Would it be possible without modern, powered, farming techniques to feed 5 people on half and acre and keep them fit and healthy?
I could see it if we used aquaponics, vertical gardening etc. but I guessed by the comments you are not talking about using either of those.
Scottish crofter did so for hundreds of years before the clearances, they farmed on a lot less, a `Rig` was an area of about 75 meters by something like 150-200 meters and each crofter and his family were expected to make a living from that land, swapping `Rigs` between crofter every year so that the best and the worst land were not always held by the same families
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - bigpaul - 18 October 2013
allotments are smaller than that and you'd be surprised what you can grow on one.you only need the acreage if your keeping large animals, plants can be grown in relatively small areas. research "square foot gardening" and "vertical gardening".
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - PreparednessUK - 18 October 2013
You should also checkout Jeff Lawson and his permaculture info
RE: Commuity - What does it take? - bigpaul - 18 October 2013
also "permaculture" magazine. handy tips and ideas.