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+---- Thread: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection (/showthread.php?tid=7805)
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - Pete Grey - 12 October 2018
Just come across this thread as i sit by the fire with a glass of malt. As SD said we will have to take more care after an event, with possibly no medical care available.
If working outdoors take extra precautions, safety boots, trousers not shorts, weight belt if you’re humping heavy stuff around, long sleeved top, good leather work gloves, eye protection and suitable head gear.
If using sharp tools be extra careful, I’ve an old leather apron which is very useful when heavy cutting, also for welding etc, and i’ve a thick pvc apron with thick plastic gloves when handling batteries, the list goes on.
When out hunting or foraging wear good boots, appropriate clothing and always carry a first aid kit.
And yes if you do cut yourself clean the wound scrupulously, wound wash, iodine,TCP, diluted Detol, and there’s always Dakins solution (sodium hypochlorite and sodium bicarbonate, google it) change the dressing frequently and if you see redness or any itching it could be infection, if there is i hope you remembered the fishmox.
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - CharlesHarris - 13 October 2018
Wound Care in the Field:
Surgeons divide wounds into four categories: clean, clean-contaminated, contaminated, and dirty/infected. The differences between each class are determined by the amount of bacterial contamination expected in the wound.
The first two categories are for patients in hospital. A clean wound occurs when prepared (cleansed) skin is opened in a controlled fashion and no internal organs are entered. Hernia repair is a good example. Clean-contaminated wounds also happen in operating rooms, as when an internal organ is operated upon under controlled circumstances, often with antibiotic coverage. A good example is an appendectomy.
Contaminated wounds include open fresh traumatic injuries or surgery with bacterial contamination from an internal organ. Slashing your hand with the same knife you have been using to clean fish or game would be a good example of the former.
Dirty and infected wounds contain dead tissue, pus, foreign material (e.g. wood, grass, etc.), gross contamination (e.g. dirt, manure) or contaminated wounds that have received no treatment in the first hours after injury.
The classification system is useful because it predicts the chance of an injured area becoming infected. Infection rates by classification are:
• clean: 1.5-3.9%
• clean contaminated: 3.0-4.0%
• contaminated: 8.5%
• dirty wounds: 28-40%
Obviously, the dirtier your wound the greater likelihood of a subsequent infection. This is especially true if you suture the wound and trap contaminants inside. Bacteria in a warm, closed space feed on bloody injured tissue and are able to multiply rapidly. They are able to spread into the surrounding healthy tissues causing an infected wound that is red and drains pus. If drainage doesn’t occur they can spread through tissue planes causing fasciitis, the so-called flesh eating disease, or spread throughout your entire body causing fatal infection.
With proper cleansing and antibiotics a contaminated wound can frequently be closed without infection but even surgeons in a hospital will usually leave a dirty wound open initially. This allows the fluid and bacteria to drain from the wound and antibiotics to kill the invading bacteria. After the wound has been repeatedly cleansed and treated with antibiotics, closure can be accomplished with little chance of infection.
Within six hours - The following are suggestions for treatment of a wound which occurs when you are some distance from medical care. They are based on one easy question:
Can you get to qualified medical care within six hours? If the answer is yes I would recommend:
a) Stop the bleeding with pressure on the wound.
b) Once bleeding has stopped, gently clean out any gross debris, such as wood particles and rocks, but don’t do it so vigorously that it restarts the bleeding. Also remember that this area may be very painful so don’t torture yourself or your injured companion. If you carry local anesthetics in your medical supply kit now is the time to use them. You can inject with a needle but it can also be effectively used by dripping some into the wound. When it numbs the site a little, wet a gauze with the rest and place it in the wound. After a few minutes the wound will be less painful and easier to clean.
c) Place a sterile gauze or clean piece of cloth into the opening and wrap the site with gauze or an ace wrap. If it is near a joint, try to immobilize the joint to prevent further bleeding and pain.
d) Transport expeditiously to a hospital. Don’t take any antibiotics unless it is going to be a long trip. The hospital personnel will likely sample the wound for bacteria and prescribe appropriate antibiotics. If you have a long transport and carry antibiotics, cephalexin or ciprofloxacin would be good choices.
e) If there hasn’t been a lot of blood loss and the person isn’t nauseated, give them some pain medication for the trip.
Over six hours - If you cannot get to medical care in six hours or are in a really isolated area:
a) Stop the bleeding by pressure on the wound.
b) Once bleeding has stopped, gently clean out any gross debris, such as wood particles and rock, but don’t do it so vigorously that it restarts the bleeding. In this circumstance try harder to physically remove the materials. If you have access to a lot of water, irrigate the area thoroughly. The water won’t be sterile but shouldn’t be grossly dirty or contaminated. Again, do not clean so vigorously that you restart any bleeding, and make use of any local anesthetics as directed above.
c) Place sterile gauze or clean cloth into the wound as deep as you can without causing undue pain. Cover the site with more gauze pads, and wrap the site with gauze or an ace wrap. If it is near a joint, try to immobilize the joint to prevent further bleeding and pain.
d) This wound will seep a lot of fluid and the dressing may need to be changed frequently in the first 48 hours. Make an effort to cleanse the site with water and then replace the gauze pack. Removing the pack will help to remove a lot of the debris that you couldn’t easily get out initially. After several days the wound will not be nearly as painful and the dressing change will be easier to do.
e) If you have antibiotics go ahead and take them in this circumstance. Topical antibiotic ointments such as Bacitracin, Triple Antibiotic, or Bactroban could also be helpful. I would place some on the gauze that is placed into the wound.
If there has been extensive blood loss, an open fracture exists, or there are other serious associated injuries (head, chest, abdomen) begin expeditious transport to medical assistance or use any available communication to summon help to the scene.
If this is simply a contaminated laceration and you have adequate dressing supplies, you may continue to treat the wound in an open fashion. It will heal on its own in two to four weeks. It may leave a wider scar than desired, but you can later find a plastic surgeon who will revise it.
Closing the skin over trapped blood, dead tissue, and foreign material creates a buffet table for bacteria. Don’t make the same mistake. Pack it open, avoid the infection, and let it heal cleanly. By Bill Glade, M.D. Via: backwoodshome.com
The use of sugar to enhance wound healing
Hugh Coffees book "Ditch medicine" has an interesting chapter on the use of sugar as a treatment of infected wounds.
Quote: Sugar has been called a non-specific universal anti-microbial agent. Based on its safety, ease of use and availability. As with any wound the wound is first irrigated and debrided. Hemostasis is obtained prior to the application of the sugar since sugar can promote bleeding in a fresh wound.
A wait of 24 to 48 hours before the application of sugar is not unusual. Once bleeding is under control, deep wounds are treated by pouring granulated sugar into the wound, making sure to fill all cavities. The wound is then covered with a gauze sponge soaked in iodine solution. In a few hours the granulated sugar is dissolved into a "syrup" by body fluid drawn into the wound site.
Since the effect of granulated sugar upon bacteria is based on osmostic shock and withdrawl of water that is necessary for bacterial growth and reproduction. So to continually inhibit bacterial growth, the wound is cleaned with water and repacked at least one to four times daily. Or as soon as the sugar becomes diluted with more solute (sugar) to re-concentrate the aqueous solution in the environment of the solution.
I was taught to mix Betadine with the sugar. Irrigate the wound with sterile water once it becomes syrupy, then repack the wound with Betadyne sugar again. Repeat as necessary.
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - Straight Shooter - 13 October 2018
Good post Charles, thanks !
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - JackSurvivor - 30 October 2018
For little wounds, you can use honey or liquid glue to cover it. For other way, the best options is some antiseptic cream
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - Pete Grey - 31 October 2018
I always thought superglue was a last resort to stop severe bleeding and loss of life, just to get people to an operating theatre, where a skilled surgeon would have to remove the glue before repairing the wound.
In a SHTF with no operating theatre to evacuate a person to, compression bandages and possibly the use of a tourniquet might be the best way to deal with a severe wound, to get fluids into a person, someone with no medical training or equipment could possibly use rectal infusion (read it somewhere) ? i don’t know, i have only done a basic first aid course.
With a small wound i would clean and use steristrips, if that wouldn’t keep it closed i would try some 1/2inch micropore tape across the wound leaving gaps so ny fluid could drain away. Then i would cover the wound with a sterile dressing and firmly bandage, i would not apply any antiseptic cream, honey or anything else until i was sure bleeding had stopped.
As i said i have only done a basic first aid course and know my capabilities, but it makes sense to me.
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - Mortblanc - 31 October 2018
I always favored a hair from the mule's tail and a rusty sewing needle!
Don't worry, Old Yeller will pull through!
There was once a special medical course in the U.S. military called "Dog Hospital" where all students were issued a dog.
As they progress through the course from basic cuts to major injuries each type injury is inflicted on the dog and the soldier must treat the animal for that injury. They cut the dog, shoot the dog, break a bone, give it a concussion, do an amputation.....and the student has to inflict the wound.
The treatment must be accomplished without using any "modern" medicines. No antibiotics, special disinfectants or treatments.
If there is infection or other problems you are marked down. If the dog dies you fail the course.
At the end of the course you can keep the dog, though there may not be much dog left, or finish it off.
Occasionally they use goats. I think they eat the goats at the end.
I do not know if they still have that training available or not? Probably not in today's' social climate.
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - Pete Grey - 31 October 2018
(31 October 2018, 16:36)Mortblanc Wrote: I always favored a hair from the mule's tail and a rusty sewing needle!
Don't worry, Old Yeller will pull through!
There was once a special medical course in the U.S. military called "Dog Hospital" where all students were issued a dog.
As they progress through the course from basic cuts to major injuries each type injury is inflicted on the dog and the soldier must treat the animal for that injury. They cut the dog, shoot the dog, break a bone, give it a concussion, do an amputation.....and the student has to inflict the wound.
The treatment must be accomplished without using any "modern" medicines. No antibiotics, special disinfectants or treatments.
If there is infection or other problems you are marked down. If the dog dies you fail the course.
At the end of the course you can keep the dog, though there may not be much dog left, or finish it off.
Occasionally they use goats. I think they eat the goats at the end.
I do not know if they still have that training available or not? Probably not in today's' social climate.
Sorry MB, but the British Red Cross don’t use dogs for their courses, not even 20 years ago.
I think i would prefer goat school, i have eaten goat curry but not dog ?.
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - CharlesHarris - 31 October 2018
At AFIP the surgical residents got goats early-on, and pigs which had been raised to 80-90 kg at the end. When my hunting buddy ER Doc was an instructor there and I was stationed in DC in the 1980s we had some really great BBQs.
Note to Pete, dog is very much better than monkey. Rat is like squirrel. Burmese python as they have open season on in Florida can be actually be chewed, rather than swallowed in small chunks, if beaten to death, sliced thin, dusted in rice flour, red pepper, curry and deep fried. It resembles calimari ala Michelin.
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - Pete Grey - 1 November 2018
(31 October 2018, 23:09)CharlesHarris Wrote: At AFIP the surgical residents got goats early-on, and pigs which had been raised to 80-90 kg at the end. When my hunting buddy ER Doc was an instructor there and I was stationed in DC in the 1980s we had some really great BBQs.
Note to Pete, dog is very much better than monkey. Rat is like squirrel. Burmese python as they have open season on in Florida can be actually be chewed, rather than swallowed in small chunks, if beaten to death, sliced thin, dusted in rice flour, red pepper, curry and deep fried. It resembles calimari ala Michelin.
Thanks CH i’ll bare that in mind, but restaurants around here have a rather conservative menu.
RE: It's so easy to get a little cut/wound infection - CharlesHarris - 1 November 2018
Ah yes, but when the restaurants are closed and the just-in-time delivery for the Aldi has failed you must learn to be more creative. Pass the possum!