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+--- Thread: Antibiotics Post SHTF (/showthread.php?tid=6014)
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - River Song - 19 September 2013
There are a number of issues developing.
Some are well worn, e.g. If we have a civil emergency, will it be permanent of temporary and if temporary how long. Some take the view that it will be permanent.
If this is so then everything including medicines will at some point run out. In that case we are certainly back to herbals and we need to have some understanding of HOW they work even if the efficacy rate is only 10% - it's better than 0%
(Herbals generally work (if they work at all) but attacking the symptom in a so-called natural way.)
Homeopathy works by giving you extremely small doses of exactly what ails you. So for example, I once went down with glandular fever badly and was treated with very small doses of glandular fever, on the basis that you "treat like with like". It worked. (Interesting that the royals all use it!!)
Science will have none of it because it works on the basis that more is better when homeopathy works on the basis of "less is stronger" because if it is very tiny, then your body works harder to attach the foreign substance, i,e. treat like with like.
Coming back to the original questions - I would personally stock up on all medicines - never throw away anything and when that runs out move to herbals or homeopathy, whatever floats yer boat.
If the emergency is permanent you're gonna have to move to herbals anyway but if, as I personally suspect, that the emergency will be temporary but sustained (upto 1 year) then your storage of medicines will be vital.
Allons-y
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - Gizmo - 19 September 2013
(19 September 2013, 16:15)Mortblanc Wrote: Options that do not work are not options.
Welcome to herbal medicine and the technology of the 19th century.
http://mappinghistory.uoregon.edu/english/US/US39-01.html
If you applied 19th Century herbalism to the 21st Century patient you would get a similar success rate as you did in the 19c, but our knowledge of how the body and disease work has moved on by a huge margin since then. If herbal medicine was applied with 21st century knowledge then the success rate would be a fair bit higher.
Homeopathy though is a very different kettle of fish to herbalism
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - Highlander - 19 September 2013
(19 September 2013, 15:38)Mortblanc Wrote: Herbal remedies are not the answer, they are something to give a person as you watch them die.
I dont understand this, as a Historian [ I think ] and a re-enactor, history must have told you something about how people looked after themselves before modern medicine.
Ok, so some of what was used didn't do a lot of good, but there were clearly many herbal medicines that worked well then and still do now
We have a professional Herbalist of 30 years on this site, are you telling us that all that he learnt and prescribed was no good,... because somehow I doubt he would have been doing it for anywhere near 30 months never mind 30 years
BP, made an important point, that most if not all modern medicine has come from nature, and they are still searching the jungles of the world for more to use,.. so if you except that, you must except that people prior to modern medicine, did use plants to cure illnesses
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - Skean Dhude - 19 September 2013
Without the technology, clean rooms centrifuges etc. we will have to make do with what we know and what is available. Some diseases will be untreatable but many will be. We just have to suck it up and get on with it.
It is the same with everything; Store what you can so you can live the transition and the more you have the better and while you are transitioning learn how to replace that item from what is available to you. Goes for everything. Food, Water, Power, etc. not just medicines.
I'm learning what I can from Ken. He has a lot to teach us.
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - Jonas - 19 September 2013
(19 September 2013, 09:22)bigpaul Wrote:(19 September 2013, 09:15)Binnie Wrote: you normally get in excess of a year though, well on everything i've had it's been over a year "use by".
a year is a long time!
maybe it is if its something you use all the time, but something "just in case" could exceed its date before you use it, I have heard it could be dangerous to use any drug past its date as the properties change over time, I have asthma inhalers"just in case" and most get thrown out without ever having been used.
The only antibiotic that I know that you don't want to use after its expiration date is Tetracycline. It will get toxic with age. The others (penicillin, etc.) merely become weaker.
(19 September 2013, 15:38)Mortblanc Wrote: Before 1945, after 2 million years of working with natural remedies, Pneumonia was the #1 killer in the U.S.
Now they give you a bottle of amoxicillin and send you home. In three days to a week you are back at work.
Herbal remedies are not the answer, they are something to give a person as you watch them die.
Actually, in current practice, pneumonia is treated with an IM injection of Rocephin, usually daily for about a week.
For virii like influenza, antibiotics won't do anything. However, tincture of black elderberry (1 tsp q 4hrs) works quite well. If you're dealing with an open sore (leg ulcer, bed sore, cast sore, etc.), then granulated white sugar mixed with provodine iodine solution into a thick paste and applied to the wound works well too.
Score 2 for the herbal medicine folks!
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - Binnie - 20 September 2013
(19 September 2013, 16:15)Mortblanc Wrote: Options that do not work are not options.
quote of the day!
Modern medicine is a miracle.
Post collapse there will probably be a huge black market for meds, even just the basics like "cold and flu" tablets might go for stupid amounts.
Would i trade a box of amoxycillin for a lump of gold or silver? hell no!
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - MaryN - 20 September 2013
Well, this is all very fine and dandy. However, if we do have a major SHTF situation there won't be anyone making antibiotics. I think we all know that antibiotics have to be stored in cool and dry places - well good luck with achieving that situation. You may find yourself in the damp and cold and things pretty quickly go to pot.
In my honest opinion, it would be very smart to start researching alternative treatments for the most basic ailments. Herbal remedies, despite what some people say, ARE effective, and indeed until not that long ago were all that was available, I think it may well be a case of suck it up and use what is available. No use saying herbal remedies do not match up to antibiotics if you don't have any antibiotics!
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - Stevew - 21 September 2013
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doomandbloom.net%2Fmaking-penicillin-at-home%2F&ei=ZI49UtrlAoWrhQfBo4GQCA&usg=AFQjCNHi17Y5rBtaAigr59xgeGN6kfN41A&sig2=EBR7tagTOLEa3HTXF7lBSQ
here you go post shtf if noones making antibiotics just make your own penicillin!
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - Grumpy Grandpa - 21 September 2013
(21 September 2013, 13:23)Stevew Wrote: here you go post shtf if noones making antibiotics just make your own penicillin!
So that's the how - but it also gives the advice that it's really not a practical solution. No further forward.
BP, following on a link at the end of that article, there's a piece by Dr Bones on expiration dates of meds, among other things. I remembered your mention of binning inhalers and thought you might be interested...
http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/07/a_doctors_thoughts_on_antibiot.html
RE: Antibiotics Post SHTF - bigpaul - 21 September 2013
(21 September 2013, 17:37)Grumpy Grandpa Wrote: BP, following on a link at the end of that article, there's a piece by Dr Bones on expiration dates of meds, among other things. I remembered your mention of binning inhalers and thought you might be interested...
thanks GG, I think the important bit about storing ANY prescription drugs is the bit where he says "in a dry cool place", this may not be that easy post collapse when the power is off! in the case of my inhalers I think this wont apply and I can get a stash......not an issue at the mo as i'm only stocking them "just in case"-haven't had an asthma attack for about 8 years now!!