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+--- Thread: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' (/showthread.php?tid=3198)
Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - Scythe13 - 6 November 2012
Okay everyone, here's a deep one for you all.
I've been thinking (and we know that's dangerous) about the issues of WROL and how to figure if someone is hostile or not.
Granted, people like BP suggests to treat everyone as though they were hostile. I'm not going to agree or disagree. I'm just going to voice my thoughts.
I'm now a husband. If I was a father, this thought process would still apply; would I want people to treat my wife [and kids, if you have any] as being a hostile target, when she's heading down the road?
Obviously, the answer to that is a resounding NO! But that would be the situation. What about when you see a small child walking alone down the road towards your home. Do you also treat them as hostile, do you ignore them, knowing they'll die or be kidnapped? Do you take them in and look after them, either until their parents come for them, or until you're unable to sustain care for them? What would you hope people would do for your child, brother, sister, wife, husband?
Clearly there are no right or wrong answers. Merely opinion and thought. However, as preppers, people that are ready for this occurrence, do we not have a moral obligation to protect the weak of society?
UKS said about helping the old people when his area had huge blackouts one winter. He spoke about a house full of people. He opened his home and probably saved lives by acting in a compassionate way.
In society we have sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. As preppers, are we to become the wolf, or the sheepdog?
Don't forget, that once everything calms down, maybe a few months, maybe a few years, maybe never. But in all likelihood, it will calm down and 'order' will be restored. People will go back to an existence like before the event. They will have rules, families, property, laws, governing bodies, law enforcers, and the alike. So, when that happens, how will you feel, if you were to take another's life, from 50-100 yards (it's a damn hard shot at 100 yards, on a moving target! I was North Hampshire Junior archery champion for 1 year back when I lived in Basingstoke, and we shot to a max of 60 yards, but practiced to 90 yards).
In a WROL situation, it is likely you'll be spotted first. Unless you're out hunting, you won't be walking around patrolling by yourself all day long. You'll be farming, sewing, butchering, chopping logs, or something like that. It's just as likely you'll be heard before you're seen. Which presents an issue. If the person coming towards you views you as a threat, they're likely to observe you first, assess your level of threat to them, then behave accordingly. Which could well mean, they attack you, in which case, you have to take action and yes, probably kill in self defence. However, what if they approach your wife, not knowing you're about, in a purely innocent and friendly manner. Will you shoot first, ask questions later? Will you call your wife over to you, then take action? Will you greet them with a smile, distance your loved ones, then ask questions, or what?
I think the idea of saying "Shoot first" is a very dangerous scenario. If we're passing through, and someone shot at a member of my team, you're damn right we'd go after them. We'd leave the area, then come back for them, gorilla warfare style. Sneak attack, then disappear off, and repeat the process. So, having a shoot first mentality could lead to revenge attacks.
As well as that, if someone approached your position, they may have a message "The situation has been resolved. Order is restored. It's okay" But you shoot at them first, before hearing what they have to say, you're inviting swift retribution. Most likely, they'll want to come closer to you to talk to you. But you're unlikely to want them too close.
I've come to think that in all situations, unless your crossbow is in your hand, loaded, or your bow and arrow are in your hand, loaded, you're not going to be engaging them until they're about 50 yards from you. Then, you have an issue. One shot to take them out. Otherwise they'll be on you, and their team might pop out. Or you may have killed an innocent person.
I'd love to know people's views and opinions on the above.
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - uks - 6 November 2012
S13 what i did then is not would i do in a end of the world situation. I would do the same again if we had a power out. To let someone in i would have to know them very well and that they had the ability to feed themselfs or they were something or someone i needed that i would benefit from.
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - NorthernRaider - 6 November 2012
Every one of these hypothetical scenarios is going to be handled differently by everyone depending on innumerable variations, health, time into crisis, likelyhood of escape, likelyhood of reenforcements, amount of supplies at risk, day, night, summer, winter, individuals skills on both sides, how hungry everyone is, what weaponry both sides have, risk of criminal prosecution under martial law, what type of disaster it is, how long is the disaster likely to last. You simply cannot work through all the possible variations.
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - Scythe13 - 6 November 2012
@NR, that's very much my point. People say they will shoot first, ask questions later. But That view point has been troubling me. I'm not just talking about BP with this. I just used him as an example.
As preppers, I feel we have a moral obligation to help those that we can.
@UKS. I understand that mate. Given a short timescale, I hope, and believe, we would all do the same. But as above, don't we have an obligation to help those that we can (or can afford) to help?
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - Paul - 6 November 2012
My thoughts for what it's worth.
After all you've stated the ROL has collapsed.
1. Trust no one, it cuts out indecision.
2. If the ROL has collapsed, them walking towards you will know that too.
3. If them approaching you can't understand the command "Stay away" or "Stop!" they probably wouldn't have stopped anyway.
4. It's their fault if they keep coming after that with or without open hands.
5. Everyone who smiles at you is not necessarily friendly.
Finally:-
6. If you get it wrong and they kill you, who's going to protect your own?
Items 1 to 5 colors my judgement when assessing threat.
Item 6 Clinches it.
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - uks - 6 November 2012
No S13 people will become desperate very quickly. The chances are that if you let someone in you will end up with a knife in your back. Everything gone and wife sold into slavery. Im not saying shoot first and let god sort them out. Just keep a low profile hopefully trouble will pas you by. Charity begins at home.
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - NorthernRaider - 6 November 2012
(6 November 2012, 19:37)Scythe13 Wrote: As preppers, I feel we have a moral obligation to help those that we can.
No No No a million times NO, the sheeple have made their lifestyle choices, they made their beds they must now lay in them, the only people I will endevour to help in any way will be fellow preppers. Our moral obligation is to take care of our families, socialist doctrine of helping all and sundry always just means more casualties.
It would be exactly the same end result if we opened up the NHS to the rest of the world, Instead of those who paid for the system getting its full care and support, no one would get anything more than an Aspirin.
Russia, China, Ukraine, America, Brasil, etc and most of the mineral rich countries have ALL had millions of pounds available over the years to create their own public health care systems, but they did not, their choice so .......................
Every meal or anti biotic you give a stranger is one less meal / cured fever for your own people
In our street my neighbours all laughed at Mrs NRs little cute two tone 4x4, they all bought Audis, BMWs, Beetles, Mini coopers etc, They often said how pointless it was a nurse driving something like that, Two winters back they stopped laughing and started asking to be towed or or to be given lifts to work. Mrs NR obliged where she could, dropping people off at or near their works, offering to divert on her way home to pick them up again. NOT ONE, NOT ONE SINGLE NEIGHBOUR bought her a bottle of wine, bunch of flowers of even came round to say thanks after the ice melted. I lent out TWO snow shovels, one never came back and the other came back cracked.
She even drove that same winter up to a new patients house right up in the dales to get extra kit and specialist stuff to them cos they were snowed in, I drove she navigated, she did it cos she cared, she had no obligation to do it. The following day her boss E mailed her to say the family had phoned him to say " Her driver had reversed onto their lawn under the snow and they were not happy with the service"
Scythe 13 are YOU willing to risk your families safety or even their lives because you have a soft spot in your heart?
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - IB1 - 6 November 2012
Totally agree with NR, I have no moral obligation to anyone other than my family and those I have made arrangements with. If I choose to help someone that is a different matter, and depends entirely on the situation, but i certainly wouldnt feel morally obliged to do it
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - BDG - 6 November 2012
In a minor crisis, keep people at arms lenth. No point going to prison when the snow thaws and the cop cars can come and get you because you stoved someones head in because they knocked on your door to check on you.
WROL, if it comes down to it, I fully intend and see no reason why I will not be in such a sized group that anyone approaching with ill intent would see this. They better be prepared to use extreme violence and they better out number us and be well armed.
If we are in such a situation anything more than the short term to the point I am subsistence farming, the only society that is coming back is the one that I an others like me chose to make.
Say hello to BDG, your Lord Protector.
RE: Thoughts on WROL and engaging 'targets' - Straight Shooter - 6 November 2012
you all know where i stood from other posts..... but been giving it lots of thought... it depends on your location, if you live on a estate or inner city lets say,thats got to be the worst case senario , you will be full on...so nr would be dead right and i would do the same, if you are in a rural situation the pressure would be off....a little but by no means safe... up high and out the way for me but , the remainder of sheeple ( the most tough ) will come looking ...up high and out the way...there would be one thing certain they are preppers or some real bad arses .... a bit easier for me to make the choice, thats why i am selling up...i want that place up high out the way with a stream....you never know it could be nr in person coming up my hill, but all you city slicker preppers get out when you can ... not easy as it sounds i know but its your only fighting chance, and even up high and out the way...my head says nr is still RIGHT