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+--- Thread: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power (/showthread.php?tid=371)
Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - NorthernRaider - 1 November 2011
Look at London after 3 days
http://preppersuk.freeforums.org
© 2011Northern Raider
I just want to look at the hypothetical effects of a societal collapse on London if the power went off completely for more than a few days.
Lets start with the obvious
No Street Lights
No Traffic Lights
No Tube Trains
No Railways
No Telephones
No Cell-phones
No Elevators
No Fridges or Freezers
No Petrol pumps
No Shop lights
No Power to the homes
No Electronic door locks
No CCTV or Traffic Cameras
No ATMS or Cashpoints.
No mains powered radios, tv’s or game stations
No Air-con or heating
This of course will ensure no food or fuel is delivered either, where do you suppose the now hungry thousands of gang members will go to find food, You saw how only a few hundred reacted in August 2011 in Tottenham.
That’s just for starters, don’t expect any refuse collections, don’t think any but a few brave cops or medics can get to work, Don’t expect the army to help much, most London garrisons have long since been relocated far from London.
The hospitals and frozen food stores have back up power supplies as do SOME telephone exchanges, but the amount of fuel stored varies between 4 and 7 day’s worth, whats going to happen if no fuel supplies arrive.
As for the three IIRC oil refineries in that areas all are utterly reliant on power supplies to operate the crackers and distilleries, and of course the pumps that push the fuel from plant to truck.
Now after approximately 3 days the water in the cisterns and tanks will be running dry, toilets will stop being flushed and that’s only part of the problem.
Back in the 1800s after the Great Stink of 1858 the authorities built a huge magnificent sewage system to carry the city’s waste and effluents, rain and storm water to brand new treatment stations to the east of London. The system had shallow sloping sewers that ran to giant effluent holding tanks that could hold up to 3 days of the city’s waste which was PUMPED to the treatment works then pumped out to sea. Originally the pumps were huge great steam powered beam engine lifting pumps, but these old machines were replaced by ELECTRIC MOTORS years later.
When new this system could carry the waste of the 3,188,000 Londoners of the 1850s to tanks that would fill in 3 days, today London,s population is 7,753,000 plus a few hundred thousand illegals. After the tanks are full if they are not treated and emptied the sewage will soon back up along the entire shallow drop sewer network before eventually finding its way out into the streets and cellars and find its way into the water table.
Oh yes let’s not forget London’s numerous tube and railway stations that are underground or partially underground and below the water table, If the power goes off the pumps that keep these soggy tunnels dry will stop and the stations and tunnels will flood.
(That makes me wonder where the millions of rodents like mice and rats will go to if they are displaced from the sewers and tunnel’s?)
Do you believe the police will go to work keeping the criminals and ethnic gangs in check and leave their families at home alone in the dark? No I thought not.
I do believe the fit single well trained and well prepared young male survivalist and prepper will probably be able to get by especially if a few of them group together, but as for everyone else………………….
NR
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - Skvez - 1 November 2011
(1 November 2011, 11:14)NorthernRaider Wrote: The hospitals and frozen food stores have back up power supplies as do SOME telephone exchanges, but the amount of fuel stored varies between 4 and 7 days worthMost backup generators have a fuel tank with between 4 and 12 hours of fuel.
Hospitals and sewage works may have some additional storage but I'd be very surprised if any shops have additional fuel on hand.
Telephone companies are legally required to have sufficient back-up to keep the phones powered for 24 hours after loss of mains power (although these days lots of people have handsets (typically wireless)that require separate power rather than line power).
Most electrical outages in the UK are less than 4 hours and so that's what the plans take into consideration. Their idea of worst case is (after a few hours) close the shop, get the shoppers out in an orderly manner and assume it will all be fixed for tomorrow.
However short of an EMP I don't see a scanrio that would lead to an instant total 3 day+ loss of power in London.
Most SHTF scenarios would experience increasingly worse intermittent power.
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - NorthernRaider - 1 November 2011
(1 November 2011, 13:51)Skvez Wrote: However short of an EMP I don't see a scanrio that would lead to an instant total 3 day+ loss of power in London.
Most SHTF scenarios would experience increasingly worse intermittent power.
Russia shutting off the gas pipelines to europe as they did to the Uraine, The Islamic world refusing to sell us oil prefering to sell it to China and India, Civil unrest ala Greek style, Economic collapse, Terror attack on National grid, EMP, ICe storm like Canada in 84 which demolished most of the pylons, National strike by utilities workers ??
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - bigpaul - 1 November 2011
(quote) Nick Rosen wrote in 2007 in his book "How to live off grid": "Oil from the middle east and gas from Russia are both vital for our economy and both could simply be turned off in response to some British foreign policy"(unquote), on top of that this country only stores enough gas to last 13 DAYS.
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - Skean Dhude - 1 November 2011
It wasn't that long ago that Gordo annoyed the Russians. In that case they responded by kicking Brits out of Russia. Next time it may be gas restrictions and if we are on wind turbine power at the time it could easy be No power.
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - bigpaul - 1 November 2011
"here we go, lets have a crack at wind turbines while were at it!" the wind industry is in its infancy, we havent got many wind turbines but we have to start somewhere, if the power goes off with wind power you would have SOME power not much i grant you but some is better than nothing, better than having another Chernobyl. can someone tell me if the SHTF and the power goes off, what happens to nuclear power, do the reactors just shut down or do they go into meltdown and explode??
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - Skvez - 1 November 2011
Northern Raider those are good reasons for the UK to be unable to provide 100% power but they wouldn't result in total loss of supply.
The UK would have to instigate rolling blackouts but everywhere would have power for at least some time every day.
My point stands that a 100% to 0% instant loss of supply is very unlikely.
BigPaul
Older Nuclear power designs require power to cycle the coolant water, without it we run the risk of Japan-type problems.
A Chernoble type explosion should not happen with the UK Nuclear designs.
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - Skean Dhude - 1 November 2011
(1 November 2011, 15:28)bigpaul Wrote: "here we go, lets have a crack at wind turbines while were at it!"
Not a crack. More of a fissure.
I think wind turbines are crap and will lead us into disaster. They are OK for individuals and should be located on their houses. I will have one myself but for a community use they are next to useless. We have working technology why waste time and money working on something that looks like it may never work.
It may work eventually but is that before or after we have brownouts all over the UK. I'm betting on the brownouts.
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - Skvez - 1 November 2011
Skean,
Wind turbines should not be mounted to houses (I really must finish my wind turbine article!)
Wind turbines are not the full answer but they are part of the answer in a well balanced electricy supply program for the UK.
RE: Hypothetical Look at London after 3 days without power - Skean Dhude - 1 November 2011
Skvez,
You did mention that bit as I remember reading it.
I stand corrected. I meant in their own property as a supply for themselves only and to reduce their reliance on the grid. If wired up correctly of course.