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+--- Thread: urgent urgent urgent urgent (/showthread.php?tid=4142)
urgent urgent urgent urgent - Prepper1 - 6 February 2013
I just found this.
It's quite worrying that the financial markets are contemplating the fall of Britain as we are.
The article itself is very long, BUT you MUST make the time to read it.
I dont know the date it was printed, because I cant find it. I may have overlooked it.
That doesnt matter though.
If the financial institutions are printing this for public viewing, the writings on the wall.
Heres a quote from the article.
During the Great Depression – when thousands of ordinary people lost everything – America’s total debt hit 252% of GDP. In any circumstances, that’s bad.
But things can get worse. During the Japanese economic collapse – which triggered more than two decades of deflation and a 75% drop in the stock market – Japanese total debt hit 498% of GDP. That’s twice as bad as the level of debt seen in America during the Great Depression.
If Britain’s current debts were at those kinds of levels, it would be worrying. But in truth, our debts are now much worse than either of those two examples.
Shockingly, our debt load is now on a scale comparable with one of the most frightening economic disasters of the 20th century…
We're talking about the Weimar Republic.
Back then, suffering under the weight of brutal war reparations, civil unrest and shattered public finances, the Weimar Republic’s total debt equalled 913% of its economy.
I’m sure you know what happened next: the government printed money and hyperinflation took off. In the end, it was cheaper to decorate your home with bank notes than wallpaper. Ultimately, the country descended into a period of economic and social crisis… a catastrophe that ended with the rise of the Nazi party.
And that was with debts worth 913% of the economy.
Today, Britain’s total debt equals 900% of the economy.
When you add in our financial sector debt, government debt, personal debt and corporate debts… our debt load rivals the Weimar Republic in scale.
To put it mildly, this worries us a great deal. It should worry you, too. Because this simple fact alone proves just how inevitable Britain’s coming crisis is.
Remember, as you saw earlier the only thing delaying the crisis right now is the fact that interest rates are at historical lows. That’s what allows life to carry on “as normalâ€Â.
But things won’t be this way for long.
Because the simple fact is:
When interest rates rise – and they WILL rise – Britain will face the greatest crisis in generations.
http://info.moneyweek.com/urgent-bulletins/the-end-of-britain?infinity=gaw~DISPL%2BSPCFC%2BThe%20End%20Of%20Britain~DISPL%2BSPCFC%2BThe%20End%20Of%20Britain%2BPL%20telegraph.co.uk%2BKW%20%20Economy%2BTXT~17168932149~placement:www.telegraph.co.uk~c&gclid=CNnGyPHNorUCFefJtAodeTAACw
I think if you ignore the blatant marketing just like the u.s. sites trying to get you to buy gold, out of fear the underlying comments are valid and real.
I think nows the time to up the anti and if we can take our personal preps up a notch.
I dont like it, somethings not quite right.
Is there a way we can verify these facts does anybody know of other variafyable sources of our gdp?
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/
Now ive just found this which says its only 70.7
UK National Debt
By Tejvan Pettinger on January 23, 2013 in uk economy
The UK national debt is the total amount of money the British government owes to the private sector and other purchasers of UK gilts.
Public sector net debt was £1,111.4 billion at the end of December 2012, equivalent to 70.7
Source: Office National Statistics publications[1] (page updated Jan 23rd 2012)
and this is an older article but seems to support the first figures more...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15820601
I'm getting conflicting 6 of one, half a dozen of the other from the little research i've done this minute.
some sites are saying no problem, no worrys, some are very much not.
What I personally would take from this is that we need to up the anti as I said before.
Things MAY not be as bad as the first article implys but theres no way of telling for sure.
I think I'd rather be prepared for the sh*t to hit the fan sooner rather than later.
We know 100% we cannot rely on the paters or the ptb to give us the real version of events.
If a melt downs coming WE WILL be the last to know.
THIS is from 2011...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/20/vince-cable-economy
Vince Cable has warned that the political class has not yet prepared the public for the scale of the underlying problems facing the UK economy and the coming squeeze on living standards.
In a frank interview with the Guardian the business secretary repeatedly referred to the time and pain that will be needed to restructure what he regards as a broken economic model.
"It is a challenge to us to communicate it better. I don't think it is understood that the British economy declined 6 or 7% – [that is] 10% below trend," Cable said. "We are actually a poorer country, mainly because of the banking crash, the recession that followed it and partly due to the squeeze we are now under from the changing balance of the world economy."
He argued: "Britain is no longer one of the world's price setters. We take our prices from international commodity markets driven by China and India. That is something we have got to live with and adjust to. It is painful. It is a challenge to us in government to explain it. The political class as a whole is not preparing the public for how massive the problem is."
He expresses frustration that "the debate about the economy is in the wrong place," partly blaming Labour for still being in a state of denial that its golden decade of growth had been built on an unsustainable model of financial services.
"There is not a sustained critique, pressure or argument from the progressive wing of politics. Ultimately it comes back to this defensiveness and an unwillingness to accept that Britain was operating a model that failed … it makes it more difficult for us to get through to the public about the scale of the problem. That is to everyone's loss."
He said: "As a country we are going to have to go through some very big major structural changes, but if the dominant debate is 'Well, what is the problem? Why are we all doing this stuff? It is not really necessary.' Of course it makes it more difficult."
Cable, one of five Liberal Democrat ministers in the cabinet, said it was realistic for the coalition to eradicate the structural deficit by the end of this parliament, adding "our credibility hinges on it".
But he does not convey optimism about growth in the short term. "The fact is that we are now having to get used perhaps to lower growth and a gradual process of building the economy up again."
He said: "We have had a very, very profound crisis which is going to take a long time to dig out of. It is about the deficit, but that is only one of the symptoms. We had the complete collapse of a model based on consumer spending, a housing bubble, an overweight banking system – three banks each of them with a balance sheet larger than the British economy. It was a disaster waiting to happen and it did happen. It has done profound damage and it is damage that is going to last a long time."
He predicted the impact on people's lives will not come primarily from government spending cuts, but the squeeze in living standards caused by world prices and a 20% devaluation of sterling against other major currencies.
Without questioning the growth forecasts from the Office for Budget Responsibility, he stressed the uncertainty of external factors. "We cannot predict what is going to happen in the eurozone, and how that is going to impact on us, and we cannot predict what is going to happen to oil prices."
Cable recently wrote that "economic policymaking is like driving a car with an opaque windscreen, a large rearview mirror and poor brakes", and told the Guardian the metaphor applied to Mervyn King, the governor of the Bank of England, as he made the big calls on monetary policy designed to spur growth.
More broadly, he said: "The danger is over-confidence  the belief that the government can control everything in the economy. Governments cannot. Economic management is difficult."
He also denied the government is locked into a cycle of more spending cuts if growth slows. He said: "What is not often acknowledged is that there is a lot of flexibility built into current policy. The main element of flexibility is in monetary policy and the second is the basic Keynesian stabilisers. That is the way the government is functioning. We are not trying to maintain budget balance come what may. If the economy slows down, the deficit temporarily has to rise to take account of cyclical change, flexibility is built in."
Cable expressed disappointment that tribalism has returned to politics in the wake of the AV referendum, admitting it will be difficult for his party in the short term. But he claimed the change could be turned to Nick Clegg's advantage.
"There is now a large constituency of people out there who, for want of a better word, are de-tribalised, who hate the ya-boo, left-right debate who are looking for a home, and in a way that is our constituency. Blair appealed to that [group] a decade ago, successfully."
He said despite the vitriol directed at his party during the local elections, it had retained a base of 15% from which it can build.
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - Tartar Horde - 6 February 2013
It is clear that the debt bubble and consequently the fiat currency backed systems will fail, it is a mathematical certainty. It behoves us who are wise to the fact to prepare, adapt and survive.
Fortuna favit mentat paratae.
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - Scythe13 - 7 February 2013
The 70.7% is the internal debt to UK based organisations. Its a very clever wording system.
The National debt to foreign countries, is not the 'national debt' based on guilds and government bonds.
The standard system for when a government wants to raise capital is to sell gilts. These are basically the same as bonds.
It's a promise to repay the amount plus interest a certain time in the future.
Let's say SD wants to raise £1000.
NR buys a gilt at 4% over 10 years, paying £500 to SD.
BP buys a guilt at 7% over 18 years, paying £500 to SD.
Now SD has his £1000. Providing he pays NR and BP in time, it's all good.
Now, this is where it gets interesting.
The IMF have given money to the UK which has then been given to the banks. The IMF charges the UK for the money. The UK charges the banks. As far as the accountant are concerned, SD has £1000 in cash as an asset, but has £1000 in liabilities as bonds to NR and BP. All in all, SD is cash neutral to the accountants.
So, the true numbers quoted are...sperious, at best.
It's called creative accounting. All good organisations are good at it.
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - Digger - 7 February 2013
(7 February 2013, 02:39)Scythe13 Wrote: The 70.7% is the internal debt to UK based organisations. Its a very clever wording system.
The National debt to foreign countries, is not the 'national debt' based on guilds and government bonds.
The standard system for when a government wants to raise capital is to sell gilts. These are basically the same as bonds.
It's a promise to repay the amount plus interest a certain time in the future.
Let's say SD wants to raise £1000.
NR buys a gilt at 4% over 10 years, paying £500 to SD.
BP buys a guilt at 7% over 18 years, paying £500 to SD.
Now SD has his £1000. Providing he pays NR and BP in time, it's all good.
Now, this is where it gets interesting.
The IMF have given money to the UK which has then been given to the banks. The IMF charges the UK for the money. The UK charges the banks. As far as the accountant are concerned, SD has £1000 in cash as an asset, but has £1000 in liabilities as bonds to NR and BP. All in all, SD is cash neutral to the accountants.
So, the true numbers quoted are...sperious, at best.
It's called creative accounting. All good organisations are good at it.
S13
This links back to your thread on slavery by consent.
The Country is promising the future work-power of us, the enslaved population, as collateral.
How to get out of the system is the big question for me.
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - NorthernRaider - 7 February 2013
(7 February 2013, 08:14)Digger Wrote: .
How to get out of the system is the big question for me.
I dont think its truly 100% achievable but with some effort and sacrifice you can lower your signature greatly.
All the usual things such as not having credit / debit cards, not shopping online, only paying cash, not driving a vehicle, live in rented accomodation or not having a mortgage, not using the NHS , schools or welfare system etc.
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - Scythe13 - 7 February 2013
(7 February 2013, 09:49)NorthernRaider Wrote:(7 February 2013, 08:14)Digger Wrote: How to get out of the system is the big question for me.I dont think its truly 100% achievable but with some effort and sacrifice you can lower your signature greatly.
All the usual things such as not having credit / debit cards, not shopping online, only paying cash, not driving a vehicle, live in rented accomodation or not having a mortgage, not using the NHS , schools or welfare system etc.
I hate to say it, but....there's more fun to be had using this system than fighting against it.
Yes, I know, S13 being controversial with finances again. Well, before you berate me, if you're wearing clothing you didn't make, from plant to wearing, then STFU and hear me out.
Providing you know how the system works, and how to get it to work for you, then this system is capable of providing much more benefit than realised.
The basic idea, as Digger said, goes back to my thread about Consented Slavery. If you know how to get that slavery to work for you, instead of working against it, then you'll be able to reap GREAT rewards. Think about it logically. Staying totally out of THE SYSTEM, would mean never going into a shop. So, can you really make all your own clothes, medication, housing, windows, petrol, toys, tools, electricity, pure water, and all that, by yourself? If so, then you should be reading something about medication and what you need to take.
The easiest way to sort this out is to realise that people working together do better than those working alone. If you don't believe that, compare a cave-dwelling existence to that of someone in a mansion on their own island, with internet, planes, farmers on their fields, and you get the idea.
There are ways out of the system, but they'd be no fun. Better to get out of a part of the system, then enjoy the benefits is holds.
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - Tarrel - 7 February 2013
The thing is, the debt is still increasing. As long as we are running a budget deficit, the total debt will keep going up. The only way to deal with this is by growing the economy so that we all (individuals, corporations and government) keep getting richer so we can sustain the repayment. But, as has been seen over the last four years, economic growth is at an end. Why? Because we're maxing out on use of resources. Oil prices are being kept high, even though most western economies are stagnant, due to unprecedented demand from China, and this is keeping the lid firmly on growth. There is no doubt, the debt bubble WILL burst. Governments are likely to either:
1. Inflate the debt away by printing money, causing potential hyper-inflation. If we do this, it will depress the pound, making purchases of commodities priced in dollars even more expensive (e.g. oil).
2. Default, which will wipe out pension funds indiscriminately, cause a run on the currency and, possible runs on the banks.
(Or of course, they could assure themselves of continued growth by helping themselves to the resources they need, through aggression.)
What does this mean to the prepper? Well, I'd start by trying to reduce exposure to rising prices. Invest in energy-efficiency measures and become less grid-dependent. Trade in the car for a more fuel-efficient one. Have a look at the green deal as a way of borrowing if necessary to fund insulation, solar PV, solar water heating and biomass. Do the maths on the returns you are likely to get by investing in these measures. If you've got money in the bank, consider using it for these types of project. We invested £8k of cash in our renewable heating system. The money saved in fuel is netting us an equivalent return of at least 10%, compared to, at best, 3% from the bank. You can add a further 2 percentage points to that, because the money we are saving we therefore don't have to earn, and therefore don't have to pay 20% tax on it, so that's an equivalent return of 12%. And all this is before energy prices go any higher.
Start moving more of your food consumption towards home grown or locally sourced produce. Avoid food waste. The more food-independent we are, the more we are insulated from rising prices.
Hold cash. Ideally enough to fund a months' worth of food shopping, and to fill the car up a couple of times. Banking systems are likely to be disrupted during financial turmoil. Cashpoints unusable. Remember Ulsterbank/Nat West a few weeks ago? A stash of cash could make the difference between riding out such a shock painlessly, and it being a real crisis.
Building up reserve stocks is, of course, a prudent move in the event of a fast collapse, or many of the "mini-quakes" we are likely to experience as the system unravels. However, becoming insulated from the worst effects of the financial turmoil is probably even more important.
Thinking about the post above, I think there is a mental adjustment that many people will have to make; from being system-reliant to self-reliant. I have a neighbour who is from Yorkshire. Used to be a regional sales manager - very connected to the system. Opted out and moved up here. They now have a B&B and he does various local services, odd jobs, etc. When they first moved up, the house they were renting had its water supplied by a spring. He said it took them ages to get to the point where they trusted the water to drink. He realised that they had become too system-dependent, and would rather trust a big-city water company than the local spring that his neighbours had been using for generations. Of course, the mains water delivered through the tap could become contaminated or interrupted at any time, but people just don't consider that. What you don't know can't kill you!
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - NorthernRaider - 7 February 2013
Sensible moves are always
1 Get out of debt
2 Scrap credit cards
3 Dont register to vote
4 Dont apply for licences (FAC /HAM etc) but its hard to get by without a driving licence
5 Dont rely on the utilities 100%, ergo get water butts / water filter/ wood burner/ PV panels
6 Grow as much food as you can and learn how to preserve it
7 Stay legal play the Gray man
8 Dont join Unions or Political parties/ dont attend protests or riots
9 Keep some good cash and barter goods
10 Be up to date situationally and aware of current affairs
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - Digger - 8 February 2013
(7 February 2013, 20:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Sensible moves are always
1 Get out of debt
2 Scrap credit cards
3 Dont register to vote
4 Dont apply for licences (FAC /HAM etc) but its hard to get by without a driving licence
5 Dont rely on the utilities 100%, ergo get water butts / water filter/ wood burner/ PV panels
6 Grow as much food as you can and learn how to preserve it
7 Stay legal play the Gray man
8 Dont join Unions or Political parties/ dont attend protests or riots
9 Keep some good cash and barter goods
10 Be up to date situationally and aware of current affairs
Just a thought, but why get out of debt? If SHTF is truly believed to be about to happen soon, surely the smart way is to get as much finance as I can possibly service, and use that cash to pay for huge amounts of preps. ...
When SHTF occurs, there will be no one to enforce debt collection, and probably large numbers of lending institutions will disappear entirely... leaving me debt free but with far bigger pile of provisions with which to survive.
The snag is working out when to borrow the cash !
RE: urgent urgent urgent urgent - NorthernRaider - 8 February 2013
(8 February 2013, 10:41)Digger Wrote:(7 February 2013, 20:05)NorthernRaider Wrote: Sensible moves are always
1 Get out of debt
2 Scrap credit cards
3 Dont register to vote
4 Dont apply for licences (FAC /HAM etc) but its hard to get by without a driving licence
5 Dont rely on the utilities 100%, ergo get water butts / water filter/ wood burner/ PV panels
6 Grow as much food as you can and learn how to preserve it
7 Stay legal play the Gray man
8 Dont join Unions or Political parties/ dont attend protests or riots
9 Keep some good cash and barter goods
10 Be up to date situationally and aware of current affairs
Just a thought, but why get out of debt? If SHTF is truly believed to be about to happen soon, surely the smart way is to get as much finance as I can possibly service, and use that cash to pay for huge amounts of preps. ...
When SHTF occurs, there will be no one to enforce debt collection, and probably large numbers of lending institutions will disappear entirely... leaving me debt free but with far bigger pile of provisions with which to survive.
The snag is working out when to borrow the cash !
We are both correct depending on the actual event, If its going to be a short term event like a banking collapse leading to a global crash eventually those money grabbbing bastards in the banks will get round to demanding repayment or siezing your home, councils will demand every last penny of owed council tax even if they did not send out bills for five years. So if thats the case you dont want to survive the collapse only for the bastard bankers to let their lawyers wipe you out years later as you try to get back on your feet. Both the banks, councils and governments may be out of action for years but you know one day they will start demanding their taxes again. So in that scenario your best staying out of debt.
But if it looks like its going to be a society ending massive long term event then shop til you drop on your credit cars and get as much kit and supplies as you can cos chances are there wont be any banks left to chase you.
Its deciding what type of event its going to be thats the problem.