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+--- Thread: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty (/showthread.php?tid=6985)
Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Scythe13 - 27 May 2014
Do you plan on this, and if so, how have you figured it to work?
What amounts of people would it take, how much watch would you have, how have you figured people will remain active, what size shifts do you expect people to work, how heavily manned do you plan your lookouts to be, how heavily fortified, what kind of coverage?
There is so much thought that needs to go into having a working overwatch system, what sticking points have you thought about and what work-arounds have you got?
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Mortblanc - 27 May 2014
Security is a concern even in "peaceful" times.
In a crisis it is absolutely mandatory.
The history of my area of the country is filed with tales of pioneer families that failed to keep watch and were wiped out for their carelessness. One incident happened about 1/2 mile down the road from my house. Eight members of the family, throats cut and scalped because they did not have dogs or security out.
All the points you bring up are due for consideration and the security will be different depending on the location, number of people in the group and general level of danger.
I have been in situations where 100% alert was mandated, that can only be maintained for a single 24 hour period, 48 at a push. Going into the third day the guards start hallucinating.
When working in shifts things are easier. I never liked to split watch, preferring to do one two hour shift rather than two one hour stints. I always liked working in three man teams so the watches were shorter.
First watch is usually not bad, and last watch is tolerable, since you have a definite end of the watch with light arriving. The middle watch is tough. You wake from sleep and instant alertness is demanded, two hours latter you are still fighting to stay awake and it is just as dark as it was when you started.
Keep in mind that all the mature people in your group can stand watch even if not fit to fight.
The fatigue of constant guard duty is one good reason to keep some good dogs. Even in middle ages Europe the watchman and his dogs patrolled the streets of the walled cities at night.
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Sunna - 27 May 2014
with over 25 yrs plus at this theirs alot more to it than one would think, most of it depends on what your faceing.
dont put friends together , they will say you sleep wile ill watch and tommrow we will swap.
keep guards active , swap them around every few hours to keep them fresh.
put someone in charge who they are scaired of that person must go from post to post to keep them on their toes.
never let gards drink, smoke weed ect.
give them other stuff to do, ie peel a bag of spuds each [if they are not doing the work their sleeping.
most of the work i have done is doorwork, gatehouse , outdoor shows fairs ect, not life or death when it is life or death im sure most folk would take much more caire than when its just another job.
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - bigpaul - 27 May 2014
no body seems to have mentioned guard dogs, dogs have a hundred times better hearing than any human and will let you know someone is about long before any human guard would. also trip wires, snares and traps will slow them down(intruders that is not dogs) .
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Scythe13 - 27 May 2014
(27 May 2014, 14:06)bigpaul Wrote: no body seems to have mentioned guard dogs, dogs have a hundred times better hearing than any human and will let you know someone is about long before any human guard would. also trip wires, snares and traps will slow them down(intruders that is not dogs) .
Monty did say about that, down the bottom of his post. But not a massive post about it.
(27 May 2014, 02:08)Mortblanc Wrote: The fatigue of constant guard duty is one good reason to keep some good dogs. Even in middle ages Europe the watchman and his dogs patrolled the streets of the walled cities at night.
Not sure whippets would make good guard dogs though haha.
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - bigpaul - 27 May 2014
your whippets would probably make good guard dogs Scythe, we aren't talking "attack" dogs more like "warning" dogs, even some little mutt from the rescue centre would do a good warning job.
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Mortblanc - 27 May 2014
I am trying to figure out how you peel a sack of spuds at 3am in the dark?
There are also several types of guards one must consider in different circumstances.
There are the normal positions of alert members on the parameter, then there are OP and LP positions out beyond the ring of safety. They are for early warning.
But not too far out from the perimeter! You want to be able to hear them scream when the enemy cuts their throats.
The main problem one runs into with guard duty is the extended periods of complete and utter boredom. Stretches of time that go for days when absolutely nothing happens and everyone, including yourself, begins to question the need for guards.
NEVER DROP YOUR SECURITY REQIREMENTS!!!
As a historian I have done a great amount of research on the savage warfare of the American frontier. At one point I did specific research trying to discover how many of the simple picket wall type frontier forts had been breeched or over-run between 1607 and 1900.
I found that there were only three situations where these simple forts fell.
1. Someone opened the gates and let the enemy in
2. The enemy had artillery, guns beyond the typical individual weapon
3. THERE WERE NO GUARDS POSTED
Two of those three things were directly controlled by the leadership or by the people inside the walls.
In at least one instance a total massacre was prevented by the dogs present in the fort. Dogs were so important that many of the settlement groups would not allow a family to join their troop if the new family did not have good dogs! They were a necessity on the frontier and not having them showed a lack of common sense.
http://www.nashville-vacation-fun.com/battle-of-the-bluff.html
Also note that there were 400 well armed Indians on the outside and only about 100 settlers on the inside.
The settlers held off a two week siege.
At another fort, about 5 miles away, 12 settlers held off the same 400 man attack force for another 48 hours until help arrived.
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Sunna - 27 May 2014
carefully mort carefully.......
......
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Devonian - 27 May 2014
I think this could be a useful discussion but only it was kept more in line with what most peoples genuine circumstances are likely to be, ie: bugging in with their family within their existing homes which are most likely to be in an urban area as most of us will live in Town's, Cities, or villages with neighbours close by on multiple sides.
So the idea of posting Sentry guards 3 houses or 25m down the road (outside of Mrs Jones) and another 2 houses up the road outside Mr McGee's really isn't going to happen. It's great if you have a remote farmhouse or a place on the American plains, but how practical is it likely to be for most of us?
Also how many people will have groups big enough to be able post 2 or more guards on 2 hour shifts throughout the night (and possibly throughout the day) and still have the resources and energy to do everything that needs to be done during the day in terms of collecting water; foraging and hunting; maintenance works; gardening; security etc etc
So to me it has to be more a case of working smart, rather than working hard........
RE: Lookouts, sentries, and guard-duty - Tartar Horde - 28 May 2014
The Romans famously used Geese, but you simply can't beat the Dog. I would trust a well trained dog to detect an intruder than the best Ninja. Your Dog will protect you with it's life if it has to, Mans best friend for a reason. The Dog was the first animal to share our campfires, help us in the hunt, and guard our tribes, long before all other creatures. He was with us in the last Ice Age, thousands of years before agriculture and all the other domesticated animals, your best mate.
I don't see any problem with using an American frontier analogy, no more than I would Sun Tzu or Frontinus(the Art of War/Stratagems & Aquaducts) the principles are exactly the same, even if you are in a suburban English house.