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Catalonia declares Independence - Printable Version

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Catalonia declares Independence - Straight Shooter - 10 October 2017

Another nail in the coffin of the EU ....Catalonia declares independence today and sites the UK as inspiration ....well sort of....within the speech given ....but a time limit was given ...two weeks ....as a lead in time for negotiations for a smooth transfer of power...(i don't think so Sherlock) but you have to wonder who will be next to voice up to LEAVE the EU....although this is not the intention of the Catalans ....more the fact a splitting wide open of Spain.....does not look good for the European UNION ....that cannot appear to be falling apart....Pretty boy .....or the French President ....or IDIOT (take your pick) has already come out with He does not recognise Catalonia as a independent country/nation....truly a legend in his own mind ...he actually believes his own bullshit....i don't suffer fools well .....i suffer idiots even less.


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - Mortblanc - 12 October 2017

So you feel that self determination of nations extends down to the local level?


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - Straight Shooter - 12 October 2017

What i feel is people all around the globe are becoming more aware of what really effects them at a local level....as well as a national level....when people are told by tptb that the economy is doing fine ! and sight the stock market as proof .....employment figures are low...inflation is ON TARGET ......and this message being constantly reaffirmed by the MM ....so why is it that most pension schemes have short falls ? why is it stores are closing down? where have all the well paid jobs gone ? why are people going too loan sharks to borrow money? why do stores not hold stocks ? why do i have to wait six weeks for new table and chairs ? .......people see all this at a local level ....it effects them directly ....so what they are being told by the News guy no longer makes any sense ....so much so the average working guy can no longer have a pint and a chat in the local pub anymore because its to expensive and no longer affordable and their local pub has had to close anyway or turn to food ...two for one meals are the only thing keeping them afloat (by the skin of their teeth)....and near impossible to make a living let alone a profit .....in short....people are pissed with austerity and want things to change....CHANGE ....the main reason for the Catalans wanting changes is plain and simple ...the region is and always has been the main engine of the Spanish economy ....they contribute the most ....that props up most of the other regions of Spain, and to be blunt they hold most of the assets that the EU would want to rape should Spain default ....see Greece for details of how to rape a country successfully with the help of the IMF.....the trick is when will people realise when enough is enough ...you can bet on one thing for sure.....when tptb judge the cats just about out the bag.....war will result just before the total collapse.....more tins of beans i think.


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - Mortblanc - 13 October 2017

Sorry you can no longer afford a pint at the pub SS. Such reports would really question the ranking of the UK as the #5 economy in the world and holding one of the highest standards of living on the planet.

I think the real question in the Spanish situation is the test of "Rule of Law". Has "rule of law" been suspended when one part of an economic structure does better than another when all are in a "federal system" that was agreed on prior to the event.

Every nation has areas of low production and areas of higher production. Is it up to the high producing areas to decide that the low producing areas of their nation should be forced into perpetual poverty because they provide food and vegetables rather than mass produced goods?

Every nation has laws to insure the cohesion of that nation or are these "laws" to be applied according to convenience.

As an example, is it proper for Catalonia to succeed from Spain but not proper for the Crimea to succeed from the Ukraine?

At the end of the U.S Civil War laws were added to ensure that states would not every again succeed from our union. One provision is that all the States of the Union must approve of any other state's succession unanimously. It is literally impossible to succeed from the U.S. Union! In spite of this, every election cycle we have a rash of demands and threats of succession.

The fact is that no state in a federal system can succeed legally. Any succession in the U.S., Spain or any other Federal system would involve the seizure of National (Federal) property by the successionists which is an act of treason and automatic declaration of war by the succeeding state against the Federal Union. Civil war is assured and depending on the side the media chooses to back, one side is going to be vilified and the other supported by the tabloid reading world.

In the present case it appears that the media is backing the succession movement, which probably means that the Spanish government will fall as a result of the process. And I mean fall, not just change PM and cabinet and issue now postage stamps.

The last Spanish civil War was a struggle between ideologies; Fascism versus Communism.

This one will be "rich local area" against the legitimate and recognized nation of Spain.


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - MaryN - 13 October 2017

I am not sure it is as simple as "rich area and poor area" MB. The Catalans consider themselves to have a different culture from the rest of Spain and wish to govern themselves according to the "way they do things". There are quite a few countries that have this situation developing: The Basques in North-East Spain are a bolshy lot; very independent and probably watching the Catalonia situation unfold. We had the same situation when we lived in Brittany, France. The Bretons consider themselves Bretons first and barely rate France as being connected. They associate far more closely with the Celts. There are also similar movements in Belgium and parts of Italy. The world, it would appear, is on the move.


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - MaryN - 13 October 2017

That should read North-west Spain for the Basques. I was never great with points of the compass!


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - Mortblanc - 14 October 2017

Every country in Europe and Asia has rag-tag ethnic groups that claim to have no association with their ruling countries. Is that good reason to redraw the world map?

The problems being exhibited by the horrid deals given to member nations by the EU seems to be the key issue here, not if Catalonia should succeed for Spain.

If you in GB had not had an "exit strategy" included in your attempt to join all Europe you would, and you are to a great extent, be caught in one of the Federal Systems which legally binds you to the bad decisions of an entity that does not have your best interest at heart. And the EU is new. Before them came the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, Napoleon, the Third Reich and other less memorable intrusions into personal liberty. All of them involving one State dominating another, or all the others.

Suddenly everyone in Europe is realizing they did not make the present contracts of government, their grandfathers made them, often under military duress. Many nations were shaped by the decisions of WW1 and WW2 and some, such as Spain, by events between the wars.

We are seeing the emergence of a new form of "Civil War", one fought in the press and on the news screen and controlled by the media outlets and not by the governments or by the people in those governments.

Self determination of nations is a great thing, until one realizes the reduced tax base will not support the National Health and there are not enough guards on the border to stop the uncontrolled immigration, or there are no longer any borders to guard, or every town has its own border and you have to pay to use the road, or as in Africa, where you pay to enter and pay more to leave.


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - Straight Shooter - 14 October 2017

Every country in Europe and Asia has rag-tag ethnic groups that claim to have no association with their ruling countries. Is that good reason to redraw the world map

Well America is trying to do just that MB ....everyday , i think they call it bringing democracy
and saving the targeted Nation from from the evils of weapons of mass destruction , especially if they have oil or a pipeline to pump it .


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - Mortblanc - 14 October 2017

We did not create Iraq.

You did.


RE: Catalonia declares Independence - Straight Shooter - 14 October 2017

You sure as hell sorted the place out !.....and yes we did create it.....that's the problem monkey see monkey do.....rise and fall of empires, the closer you get to the end....the more desperate you become to maintain (the power ) then as your influence starts to fail, you will be that last to realise the truth of where you actually stand when the foundations start to crumble underneath your feet...inside or outside your country......so who is next up !.....at this point i would like to mention ......today ....i stubbed my big toe ....it was not my fault ...i hold Russia totally responsible ....and Putin in particular ! .