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+--- Thread: American school shootings (/showthread.php?tid=3728)
RE: American school shootings - Scythe13 - 17 December 2012
The gun issue is alway retarded.
I ask about 2 statistics for people to look into.
Guns owned per capita?
Gun related crimes, per capita?
Most guns per capita: Switzerland (America is second)
LEAST gun related crimes per capita: Switzerland
To close things off, I ask people to look at violent crime rates for places with gun restrictions.
Mexico - Guns totally illegal......mmm nice crime rate over there.
UK - Hand guns illegal, guns hard to get hold of..........yep, we have no crime with ANY weapons or guns over here!!! Oh wait......
RE: American school shootings - Tibbs735 - 17 December 2012
One idea I've heard online (not on the mainstream media surprise, surprise) Is for teachers and police departments to team up, and to give teachers training so they know what to do in the event of a school shooting. Stuff like:
Getting lots of kids out of a building quickly, or hiding them.
Spotting potential shooters amongst students (Preexisting mental disorders, heavy medication,) and talking to them and the parents to deescalate it before it happens.
Training catered for a school environment, on top of the requirements for concealed carry, so that teachers can 18 or 21+ students can discretely carry firearms, and know how to use them without endangering others.
The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.29
The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.33
[Source: http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/]
scroll down the linked page for the story of a shooting that was stopped prematurely
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/at-least-27-dead-white-house-responds-obama-remains-committed-to-trying-to-renew-a-ban-on-assault-weapons_12142012
RE: American school shootings - Prepper1 - 17 December 2012
If teachers were armed by default with a pistol, Glock, Beretta etc..
It would have played out very differently.
Instead of making guns evil, they should make people more gun aware and able to protect people in their charge.
or at least have an armed guard in the school maybe..
RE: American school shootings - Mortblanc - 17 December 2012
(17 December 2012, 15:12)Kenneth Eames Wrote: Thank you for your post Mortblanc. Do you think that the numbers in the militia will swell? And will they challenge the attempt to take the guns away? Do you also think that the Republicans will allow the Democrats to pass such a law? Do the American people consider that their troops have killed many children in both Iraq and Afghanistan who were also innocent children. I am very sorry that these young children have died but there are stupid people everywhere. We cannot rule out the fact that some people have brainstorms triggered by oftentimes by things we consider as trivialities. Kenneth Eames.
I am going to reply to this particular post due to the multiple questions contained within.
First, the "militia" in the U.S. is already labeled as a "fringe lunitic movement". Most people avoid contact or association with anything that hints as militia.
The present "militia" is a group of scatterbrained goofballs. Some have military experience but none that I am aware of have "leadership experience".
Knowing how to shoot and knowing how to plan an opration are two distintly seperate activities. Knowing how to plan large scale operations is beyond the training and capabilities of most of the NCO types that populate these movements. As a former officer I would not serve under any militia member I "suspect" I have ever encountered.
A completely seperate and true resistance movement would have to arise. One containing people with sense enough to keep their mouths shut, stay off the internet, stay off their phones, stay out of the media focus and operate in actual secrecy. Militia that no one knows is there, as it were.
House to house search would occur with "probable cause" gained from rewarded informants. That is the way drug busts are done here now. Since the subjects are now "lawless home grown terrorists" they will be considered outside the normal legal system. Our "Patriot Laws" allow for suspension of habius corpus and any other constitutional protection if the "terrorist" label is used. Our nation is polarized and stupid. Half will believe they got what they diserved, half will be silently outraged and wait for the knock on their own door.
Our entire nation will resemble a prairie dog town as people scramble to bury thousands of firearms hoping the satalites and drones do not pick up their actions.
As for the slaughter of innocents by troops around the world, that is actually a theological matter. Our government has promoted the dismissal of religion for many years, substituting the worship of government as the highest power. If government is the highest power then it can do not wrong. Killing of thousands by the government, or as an agent of the government, is therefore justified and retribution against evil.
The killing of a single individual committed without government approval is a crime against the authority of the government.
Politically, our nation is in upheaval right now. Our two party system almost insures that periodically one party will overwhelm the other and impose its will, no matter how preverted. In those cases a majority of one controls the world and can detirmine the fate of the entire population. This occurrs about every 50 years, with the continued erosion of our Constitutional protections in each instance.
I have personally withdrawn from any party affiliation at this point, I am now an Independent. Neither group is capable of representing and protecting my views, which are not radical in any way.
The past election was not based on political theory, on human rights or on issues of actual consciquence, it was based on fantacy economics focused on class struggle. It was total emotion and manipulation of the masses. And so is this present move against firearms ownership.
The Republicans are fighting "don't you want to protect the children?" at this point. They will be played out a ogres if they oppose any legislation presented too them. This is how every one of our gun control laws has been passed. Extreme legislaton presented immidiately after a tragic incident. Normally the legislation has little focus on the actual event or anything that created or assisted it.
As for sucession? That is a matter much in focus over here. The government says it is illigal, but what would one expect the government to say. Every rebellion, justified or not, is illigal.
And not every justified rebellion is successful. Just ask the Scotts.
RE: American school shootings - Cloud - 18 December 2012
(17 December 2012, 16:46)Scythe13 Wrote: The gun issue is alway retarded.
I ask about 2 statistics for people to look into.
Guns owned per capita?
Gun related crimes, per capita?
Most guns per capita: Switzerland (America is second)
LEAST gun related crimes per capita: Switzerland
To close things off, I ask people to look at violent crime rates for places with gun restrictions.
Mexico - Guns totally illegal......mmm nice crime rate over there.
UK - Hand guns illegal, guns hard to get hold of..........yep, we have no crime with ANY weapons or guns over here!!! Oh wait......
Yeah its very interesting when you look at the stats, also here's something you wont hear about in the MSM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=552802748080612&set=a.130935610267330.19662.110312852329606&type=1&relevant_count=1
And also an armed citizen preventing a massacare
http://www.infowars.com/armed-citizen-not-police-prevented-massacre-in-oregon/
Oh and i saw this..
http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/76967-connecticut-school-shooting-adam-lanzas-mother-was-preparing-for-disaster.
The name of the Town Sandy Hook appeared in the Bat Man film on a map. Weird Co-incidence huh?
RE: American school shootings - Kenneth Eames - 18 December 2012
Thank You Mortblanc for the answer to my Questions. From what I had read about the Militia I was under the impression that they were ex-officers (like yourself) and ex-army personnel. I am very grateful for your other answers as well. To be honest with you, I am too busy with other things than to view a great deal of what occurs in The US. You've certainly enlightened me with your answers. Thank You Very Much for the information. Kenneth Eames.
RE: American school shootings - Skean Dhude - 18 December 2012
The militia in the US is anyone who wants to start a gun club from what I can see. They would be PCSOs over here.
I personally think the gun issue would start Civil War 2. States are already talking about seccesion. Wait till the full agenda from Obama gets out.
RE: American school shootings - Tartar Horde - 18 December 2012
(18 December 2012, 11:11)Skean Dhude Wrote: The militia in the US is anyone who wants to start a gun club from what I can see. They would be PCSOs over here.
I personally think the gun issue would start Civil War 2. States are already talking about seccesion. Wait till the full agenda from Obama gets out.
That's exactly the feeling I get regarding any confiscation of arms viz the USA. The Liberal leaning East Coast is a world away in scope and outlook from the "red" republican Western states, that's not to mention Southern states like Carolina, and places like the Achafalaya area of Louisiana. I can't see how the authorities could disarm these people without a bloodbath occuring. The US government must know the response of the people will be one of confrontation and resistance to their plans, which is why I believe their approach will be one of creeping legislation to rob the citizens drip by drip of their right to bear arms. Even with this approach there still eventually has to be some sort of intervention regarding the authorities physically taking weapons away from people, and even if a small percentage of gun owners in the USA resist with force that's an awful lot of potential combat situations the police etc would have to deal with. Would it be feasible?
RE: American school shootings - Skean Dhude - 18 December 2012
The real issue is that the gun owners are usually the least violent. Go figure.
This means they follow laws and have slowly had their rights eroded over the years. The question is; Will they snap before it is too late?
Over here we just bent over and took it. The US has a different mindset and I think that many states won't. It all hinges on Texas from what I hear.
RE: American school shootings - Scythe13 - 18 December 2012
In regard to the tragic shooting, one guy turned round and said "Banning guns won't help. How did not having guns help those teachers?"