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+--- Thread: Brexit (/showthread.php?tid=8380)
RE: Brexit - LawAbidingCitizen - 28 May 2016
(28 May 2016, 13:33)NorthernRaider Wrote: One bit I do not get is Labours remain stance because I remember Labour for YEARS especially guys like Wedgiie Benn saying if we leave the EU we instantly regain our fisheries thus we can rebuild our decimated trawler fleets estmated 40,000 on and offshore jobs. Then we can also supply our steel works with cheaper or free energy for the blast furnaces thus saving thousands of jobs, its the EU that banned us from giving the steel companies cheap energy. Also if we leave we could reopen our shipyards which were closed to protect the ship builders in Italy, France and Germany, again creating thousands of jobs.
But it appears that Labour are now focusing on protecting the migrant work force ahead of the British workers.I dont understand Labours apparent betrayal of their tradition core voters??
If you look at the way the central planners have structured the industries and business sectors in the EU, you will notice that over time they have steered member states away from some of their specialist areas to concentrate on a smaller number of them. For example the UK has the financial services sector, Germany engineering, France agriculture, Spain fishing/agriculture. This is not the result of market forces, it is a planned soviet style economy, with the ones on top (EU gravy train nodding yes men) being more equal than others, just like the politburo. This has the net result of making it much more difficult to exist outside of the trade block as each member state then becomes inter-dependant on the others, giving more justification to the case for remaining, just as planned. I think the left naturally gravitate to this type of centralised control and hence are reluctant to support their national industries as they look at the so called big Marxian picture of a planned economy and destruction of the nation state (through the said planned central economy), and through the destruction of national and cultural identity (by way of so called political correctness and multiculturalism, or more accurately, cultural Marxism).
LAC
RE: Brexit - NorthernRaider - 29 May 2016
Actually I had not noticed that, but you are actually right, and of course the more mono culture each country is the more utterly reliant on the others they become. Damn those Euro socialists are sneaky devils.
RE: Brexit - Steve - 29 May 2016
Interesting points, but I seem to remember Labour and the Unions fighting to keep UK industries open whilst the Tories closed them down in favour of "Free Markets". Polish coal etc., etc.
RE: Brexit - NorthernRaider - 29 May 2016
Spot on correct steve, the Tories and their free markets , what they actually did was realise British Steel like British Leyland and British NCB was losing money hand over first. So on Coal mining they expanded on Labours closure of loss making pits, and flogged off the remaining profitable ones . (I always thought a shared private/ state cooperative would have been better) The flogging off of the gas, elec and utilities was just criminal in my opinion it did not benefit the country at all. Then EU Green taxes hit many UK mines that did not produce the higher quality types of coal that were demanded.
Leyland was a basket case and not worth saving. I worked for Unipart for a couple of years and often visited the BL plants, they were still living in the 1950s with their attitudes ( workers and bosses)
Shipyards we had too many since the Japs, Indians, Koreans started making ships, quicker and cheaper than us. BUT and this is important WE NEED a domestic ship building industry as part of the nations defence policy, most people said we needed about EIGHT or so. BUT the EU also said EUROPE had to many shipyards and ordered the closure of all of them around here Tyne, Wear and Tees and many other in order to protect the manufacturing in Italy and France which was even less profitable than ours.
Steel was outragous on all counts, most of the plants were loss making, AND grossly overmanned, but we did make some progress in getting rid of the clapped out plant and reigning in the unions, So for example CORUS REDCAR plant was a fabulous facility, well ran, good non militant workers and sold off. but EU GREEN tarrifs hit it hard so the ENERGY costs rose alarmingly. THEN the EU forbade us from providing discounted or cheap energy to the steel works (whilst French and German plants got round the ban) and the energy costs made CORUS Redcar a loss maker.
LABOUR did nothing to save it that why the Labour MP lost her seat as thousands lost their jobs.
But then the nasty evil capitalists of SSI re-opened the plant and got everyone back to work for another 4 years, but AGAIN EU rules and Energy costs added to Chinese steel being allowed to be dumped by the EU killed it off again, and this time the TORIES did nothing.
A similar economic disaster has been happening in Port Talbot and Scunthorpes, Energy costs because of EU green taxes, Chinese Dumped steel and the EU stopping us from providing cheap energy has devastated those plants and communities.
But again the private sector reckons it can save Port Talbot with this £400 million buy out and save the welsh plant, pity they could not help Redcar when neither Labour nor Tories could save that.
FISHING. When we joined the EU we lost control of our seas and Spanish mega trawler fleets devastated our waters fish stocks, which also led to 50,000 UK onshore and offshore job losses. The EUs response was to limit catches but mainly to the remaining UK vessels which saw us throwing fish overboard not to break the levels the EU set. Neither Labour nor Tories did ANYTHING to protect our fisheries.
The EU does not benefit the core working classes of the UK.
RE: Brexit - NorthernRaider - 29 May 2016
FYI steve, Labour actually closed more coal mines than the tories did.
RE: Brexit - Barneyboy - 29 May 2016
(29 May 2016, 10:32)NorthernRaider Wrote: FYI steve, Labour actually closed more coal mines than the tories did.
Now your just making things up matey ,Tories shut 597 pits with the loss of 500,000 jobs ,labour shut 345 pits with the loss of 230,000
RE: Brexit - NorthernRaider - 29 May 2016
I stand corrected Barney, my bad I should have checked my facts more.
I should have said WILSON closed more pits than Thatcher.
Wilson 235 Thatcher 115
RE: Brexit - LawAbidingCitizen - 29 May 2016
(29 May 2016, 09:31)Steve Wrote: Interesting points, but I seem to remember Labour and the Unions fighting to keep UK industries open whilst the Tories closed them down in favour of "Free Markets". Polish coal etc., etc.
Maybe in the past, but since the 1992 Maastricht Treaty which led to the formation of the Party of European Socialists, of which the UK Labour Party is an active member, all orders now come from the collective.
RE: Brexit - NorthernRaider - 29 May 2016
I remember when Labour was actually the party FOR the British working classes and utterly opposed to the EEC/ EU / EUSSR, but then I also remember the Conservatives once being the party for small business and the self employed not like today when its Big Business and the Banks they support. Either way NEITHER of them represent the best wished and needs of Britain and its people as a whole.
RE: Brexit - NorthernRaider - 29 May 2016
Up here about 15 to 20 years ago when I used to spent a lot of time doing D of E and Cadet work in Durham all the youngsters funded their 4 years holi.....Uni studies by working part time in Durhams Hotels, Shops, Bars, Tourist facilities, Sports Centres etc and the community NEEDED those jobs as many of the students were also trying to buy homes, raise families, work etc as well as better themselves in UNI.
Today if you go to Durham a HUGE percentage of those jobs are now taken by Poles, Latvians, Estonians, Greeks, Portugese youngsters and to compound the problem many of these young migrants are sharing houses that were once used as student digs and accordingly not only have they taken many of the Brit kids jobs, but they have also driven rents up as well.
The Trade unions opened offices in the Baltic states to recruit and encourage the migrants to come to the UK and join trade unions, they never said diddly squat about the job losses among the Brit student community.