Some sense at last

[Skean Dhude]

Guys,

Sounds good when it is scum like Hamza but in a few years it will be us. Don't think for one moment this is good.

Scene : <Insert your name here> does something perfectly legal. US decides it is illegal there are calls for you to be brought to the US to face 'justice'. You spend 13 years in jail (one of the guys was arrested in 1999 and he hasn't got tp trial yet. What if he is found not guilty.)

This isn't Justice.

[Stokey]

(10 April 2012, 20:11)Skean Dhude Wrote: Scene : <Insert your name here> does something perfectly legal. US decides it is illegal there are calls for you to be brought to the US to face 'justice'.

In the case of Hamza though he broke applicable laws of many nations, not just the US, For the US to extradite a British Citizen the illegal crime in the US must also have to be illegal here as well.

Unless of course the crime was comitted on thier soil.

[Prep Girl]

I had to walk past that every week to charge my Electric key, my ex was a Butcher at the time, said he wanted to bring home some Pigs blood and pour it all over the pavement, National front turned up one time, was a shite hole place to live, for all it's faults this place is still like Butlins compared to there.
Human rights? he's having a fooking laugh!

[grumpy old man]

where's our rights ?

[Paul]

Simple, you and the rest of us haven't any.
Besides rights are a thing of the past much like democracy.

[Skean Dhude]

(10 April 2012, 21:38)Stokey Wrote: For the US to extradite a British Citizen the illegal crime in the US must also have to be illegal here as well.

Unless of course the crime was comitted on thier soil.

None of the above. He isn't the first and he won't be the last to face justice like this.

[Timelord]

(11 April 2012, 15:14)Skean Dhude Wrote:

(10 April 2012, 21:38)Stokey Wrote: For the US to extradite a British Citizen the illegal crime in the US must also have to be illegal here as well.

Unless of course the crime was comitted on thier soil.

None of the above. He isn't the first and he won't be the last to face justice like this.

The British courts/government have just extradited a young guy to the USA for computer software copyright infingement. It was all over the news for a few weeks last month. The guy committed no crime in the UK and in fact the only infingement was that there were "links" on his website to material that the USA big corporate companies regard as their copyrighted material. His extradition was fought against in the UK courts, but the judges ruled he still had to be extradited due to the fact the USA had followed the correct legal channels to serve the warrant on him and our courts had to honour the extradition treaty agreement in place at the moment.
So the statement about a citizen who's action in the UK which is regarded as a crime in the US, also having to be an action that is illegal in the UK for the extradition to be valid - Is Incorrect.

This is a big deal really and is another instance of why the Parliamentary Committee announced yesterday that they would be investigating the apparent imbalance of fairness in the present extradition treaty with the US with a view to reviewing it legally.

Hoorah for that! there are some good guys up there. Not enough, but some..

---

Another related point :-

A month or so ago, the Obama administration managed to roll through the Senate a bill which grants the US military the power to arrest anyone, military or CIVILIAN for any action that the Government (executive order or otherwise) declares to be an action against the security of the US.

Now folks, notice the "CIVILIAN" part - the military were never allowed to arrest civilians in normal peactime outside of any military action or property. This was a part of the Constitution & the seperation of powers etc.

Also - This rule applies to anyone - ANYWHERE!
Yes, anywhere in the world. So the US elite now think they can use their military enforcers to swoop in & pick up anyone, even in the UK. Ok, so you have rights here in the UK.... Some help they will be when you are bundled into a car or plane. By the time any British Bobbies turn up, you will be half way across the Atlantic. These actions will be covert and kept off the public radar. The British government would not want an incident like this to get politicized.

Maybe it won't happen. who knows? BUT, why pass the laws in Congress if there was no need or intention to utilize them.

Now, I'll just go see who's that knock at the door..... ......

[Stokey]

(12 April 2012, 02:48)Timelord Wrote:

(11 April 2012, 15:14)Skean Dhude Wrote:

(10 April 2012, 21:38)Stokey Wrote: For the US to extradite a British Citizen the illegal crime in the US must also have to be illegal here as well.

Unless of course the crime was comitted on thier soil.

None of the above. He isn't the first and he won't be the last to face justice like this.

The British courts/government have just extradited a young guy to the USA for computer software copyright infingement. It was all over the news for a few weeks last month. The guy committed no crime in the UK and in fact the only infingement was that there were "links" on his website to material that the USA big corporate companies regard as their copyrighted material. His extradition was fought against in the UK courts, but the judges ruled he still had to be extradited due to the fact the USA had followed the correct legal channels to serve the warrant on him and our courts had to honour the extradition treaty agreement in place at the moment.
So the statement about a citizen who's action in the UK which is regarded as a crime in the US, also having to be an action that is illegal in the UK for the extradition to be valid - Is Incorrect.

This is a big deal really and is another instance of why the Parliamentary Committee announced yesterday that they would be investigating the apparent imbalance of fairness in the present extradition treaty with the US with a view to reviewing it legally.

Hoorah for that! there are some good guys up there. Not enough, but some..

---

Another related point :-

A month or so ago, the Obama administration managed to roll through the Senate a bill which grants the US military the power to arrest anyone, military or CIVILIAN for any action that the Government (executive order or otherwise) declares to be an action against the security of the US.

Now folks, notice the "CIVILIAN" part - the military were never allowed to arrest civilians in normal peactime outside of any military action or property. This was a part of the Constitution & the seperation of powers etc.

Also - This rule applies to anyone - ANYWHERE!
Yes, anywhere in the world. So the US elite now think they can use their military enforcers to swoop in & pick up anyone, even in the UK. Ok, so you have rights here in the UK.... Some help they will be when you are bundled into a car or plane. By the time any British Bobbies turn up, you will be half way across the Atlantic. These actions will be covert and kept off the public radar. The British government would not want an incident like this to get politicized.

Maybe it won't happen. who knows? BUT, why pass the laws in Congress if there was no need or intention to utilize them.

Now, I'll just go see who's that knock at the door..... ......

computer software copyright infingement is illegal in the UK, The UK didnt initiate proceedings because the so called injured party wasnt a UK company, it was american, They accepted the extradition case because if found guilty he had perpertrated a crime that would be punishable under British laws as well if the complainant had been british.

[Skean Dhude]

Don't forget the Nat West 3.

It works the other way also. Our government can prosecute you here for something you do in another country that is legal there but illegal here. The cases so far have been ones we can all get behind but how long before we get done for handling firarms without a license when we visit the US?

[Scythe13]

I'm more worried about getting arrested for thinking about firearms in the UK.

Suspicion is often enough to get you 90 days now.