Israel loses the moral highground

[Wildman]

(19 November 2012, 09:56)Scythe13 Wrote: The oddest thing, for me, is that Hamas hide their launch sites in schools, hospitals, and places like that. Places of high civilian population!

Let's pretend there was a place firing rockets at your people/family/countrymen/fellow soldiers. Would you say "Damn, we can't shoot back incase we hit a civilian?" Would you even know that the shot was coming from a school/nursery/hospital? I very much doubt you would know the layout of the enemy city (why would you? They'd execute you for stepping foot there!) Or, would you think "F**K a missile, quick, fire back at where it came from!!!" BOOM!!! You've just blown up a school.....you bastard....or patriot.....or hero! Their next missile could have been aiming at the school that had your children in. You've just taken out a missile launch area, but you've also just killed 3 female teachers and 15 children! Yes you'll feel bad. However, you've also just saved the lives of 1000's of others! So well done you.

I hate the whole 'Moral Retaliation' principle, and this is from someone that prides themselves with good morals.

Who is sickest, the people who fire on a missile platform based in a school? Or the people that placed the platform in the school in the first place? One action made civilian casualties. The other forced them to happen.

Also, the idea of killing women and children. What's the crack with that? I'm not saying it's right, but when women and children are throwing bricks at you (and bricks can easily kill) you should not fire back? Women in Palestine will pick up a gun and fire it at you. Just as a child will pick up a gun and fire at you. Are you saying you would not want to pull the trigger on them first? To be fair, I would. BANG!!! Little Junior just got smoked. Why? Because it was either him or me? NO! Because if he had gone through me, he would have had my family/friend/co-workers/fellow-soldiers/countrymen/etc.

I'm not saying Israel are right or wrong in their actions. But, what I am saying, is that their actions are understandable. Any rational person that can empathise and place themselves in someone else's position (palestine or Israel) can understand their actions (except for placing weapons platforms in positions that would lead to the execution-by-retaliation positions designed to have the focus on women and children).

I just find it odd that we can see anyone as having a higher or lower moral position. It's war.
During the crusades, pure brutality was a daily thing! This is just a similar situation, without the up close and personal experience of using a sword.


In war, there is no moral ground. There is only win or lose. If you win, you should take a moral stance and be able to justify your actions. "We bombed the mosque, because that is where we were being bombed from. We killed 10 terrorists and 100 civilians. But that site killed nearly 500 of our citizens. If we hadn't clusterbombed the area, it could have taken out another 500+ people."

As for kids picking up the unexploded cluster bombs.......what the f**k are the children doing playing with explosives? That's some good parenting if you ask me! "He kids, this area was bombed recently. Let's go play in it!!!" That's some bad parenting. If somewhere was a known mine field, would you let your kids play there? That's basically what the parents are doing. If their parents are dead, then the sense of community that will be keeping those kids away from that area, is pretty weak!!! Oh, and the authorities and clean up crews that go to sort out the site must also be pretty poor at what they do! "Hey kid, I'll give you 10 shekels for each silver tennis ball you pick up....haha, when he finds one, I'll never have to pay him."

There is no right or wrong. But some people are pretty screwed up letting kids play in bomb sites, and placing weapon centres in shopping centres! Really uncool, if you ask me.

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Sorry, I just kind of went off on one there.

The sickest nation is the nation who have had every opertunity to live a peaceful life yet war munger with no justification as in to why. I've never heard of any Palestinian doings that weren't out of retaliation. If the whole world dose nothing then I see no reason why a poor, small country can't defend it's self.

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(19 November 2012, 15:24)Wildman Wrote:

(19 November 2012, 09:56)Scythe13 Wrote: The oddest thing, for me, is that Hamas hide their launch sites in schools, hospitals, and places like that. Places of high civilian population!

Let's pretend there was a place firing rockets at your people/family/countrymen/fellow soldiers. Would you say "Damn, we can't shoot back incase we hit a civilian?" Would you even know that the shot was coming from a school/nursery/hospital? I very much doubt you would know the layout of the enemy city (why would you? They'd execute you for stepping foot there!) Or, would you think "F**K a missile, quick, fire back at where it came from!!!" BOOM!!! You've just blown up a school.....you bastard....or patriot.....or hero! Their next missile could have been aiming at the school that had your children in. You've just taken out a missile launch area, but you've also just killed 3 female teachers and 15 children! Yes you'll feel bad. However, you've also just saved the lives of 1000's of others! So well done you.

I hate the whole 'Moral Retaliation' principle, and this is from someone that prides themselves with good morals.

Who is sickest, the people who fire on a missile platform based in a school? Or the people that placed the platform in the school in the first place? One action made civilian casualties. The other forced them to happen.

Also, the idea of killing women and children. What's the crack with that? I'm not saying it's right, but when women and children are throwing bricks at you (and bricks can easily kill) you should not fire back? Women in Palestine will pick up a gun and fire it at you. Just as a child will pick up a gun and fire at you. Are you saying you would not want to pull the trigger on them first? To be fair, I would. BANG!!! Little Junior just got smoked. Why? Because it was either him or me? NO! Because if he had gone through me, he would have had my family/friend/co-workers/fellow-soldiers/countrymen/etc.

I'm not saying Israel are right or wrong in their actions. But, what I am saying, is that their actions are understandable. Any rational person that can empathise and place themselves in someone else's position (palestine or Israel) can understand their actions (except for placing weapons platforms in positions that would lead to the execution-by-retaliation positions designed to have the focus on women and children).

I just find it odd that we can see anyone as having a higher or lower moral position. It's war.
During the crusades, pure brutality was a daily thing! This is just a similar situation, without the up close and personal experience of using a sword.


In war, there is no moral ground. There is only win or lose. If you win, you should take a moral stance and be able to justify your actions. "We bombed the mosque, because that is where we were being bombed from. We killed 10 terrorists and 100 civilians. But that site killed nearly 500 of our citizens. If we hadn't clusterbombed the area, it could have taken out another 500+ people."

As for kids picking up the unexploded cluster bombs.......what the f**k are the children doing playing with explosives? That's some good parenting if you ask me! "He kids, this area was bombed recently. Let's go play in it!!!" That's some bad parenting. If somewhere was a known mine field, would you let your kids play there? That's basically what the parents are doing. If their parents are dead, then the sense of community that will be keeping those kids away from that area, is pretty weak!!! Oh, and the authorities and clean up crews that go to sort out the site must also be pretty poor at what they do! "Hey kid, I'll give you 10 shekels for each silver tennis ball you pick up....haha, when he finds one, I'll never have to pay him."

There is no right or wrong. But some people are pretty screwed up letting kids play in bomb sites, and placing weapon centres in shopping centres! Really uncool, if you ask me.

---

Sorry, I just kind of went off on one there.

The sickest nation is the nation who have had every opertunity to live a peaceful life yet war munger with no justification as in to why. I've never heard of any Palestinian doings that weren't out of retaliation. If the whole world dose nothing then I see no reason why a poor, small country can't defend it's self.

I wander if there are any Pali preppers...bet there fucking hard core!!! Lol