(15 May 2013, 14:05)BeardyMan Wrote: (15 May 2013, 13:50)John Wrote: What are you actually proposing that this 'group' would do?
I have been involved in 'groups' before and found that they never worked out.
Hence I am now very dubious about becoming part of any group.
Personal view is groups will be a necessity post SHTF but pr-formed groups tend to fail for many reasons.
Just interested in what you are actually proposing?
John
I'm sure that BP is open to suggestions.
BP's the original lone wolf, but you've been in groups before so maybe you could give some ideas on what you'd like to see happen?
This is not want 'I'd like to see happen'. This is food for thought and consideration.
Forming Survival Groups
Forming groups to survive the collapse is often inquired upon and this subject is very difficult to deal with. Most groups fail (over 95%) within two or three years (or even sooner). And that’s now; when collapse isn’t “real†yet and the greater society remains viable out there to catch the pieces that go spinning off from their fractured group attempts.
Here is where most groups fail (in no particular order):
1) Unrealized expectations. Either these were not fully discussed, written down (important) and agreed upon; expectations are often unfilled, causing dissension, implosion and failure.
2) Lack of ‘localness’. Forming a group from ‘outsiders’ is an almost certain recipe for disaster. The lack of local connections, customs, habits, expectations, and familiarity with all of the above, causes most ‘formed groups’ from people scattered far and wide to fail.
3) Lack of funding. A serious lack of planning, expectations and foresight, lack of initial start-up costs, etc. Individual members don’t make equal contributions in terms of resources, land, money and resentment develops.
4) Habits and belief systems. Smokers, dogs, religion, politics, work ethics, even scheduling habits. Slackers, wannabe’s, lazy and incompetent people should be avoided at all costs.
5) Relocation. This is a gigantic “biggie†which encompasses ALL of the above. Economic factors aside (which are monumental all by themselves) if resolved, still fail to account for the challenges and difficulties of relocation and the undue stress that this places upon ALL the participants. However, relocation is very often a prerequisite and thus, impossible to under estimate.
6) Familiarity. The lack of communication, understanding, expectations, realizations, habits, hang-ups, hangers on (extra family members, kids, troublesome friends, etc.) create extreme problems. Includes non-humans too (dogs, birds, cats, family ‘pets’).
7) Impatience and lack of bonding. Most groups form in a hurry, based on a perceived need and almost always, a sense of urgency, which fails to address ALL of the above. Such groups are destined for disaster and failure.
Groups are stronger than individuals, but you must carefully consider what you’re asking for - and expecting. And what people say - and what they do are two entirely different things.
Stress can produce the very worst and the very best in humans. You have to know that your fellow members won’t crack under pressure. Most of them probably will.
I strongly advise AGAINST forming a group from people that do not live close by that you cannot get to know personally, intimately and slowly. Time is against you right now to do this, but Building trust is essential.
If you are going to form a group, start with family. Then close friends. And close neighbours. Beyond that, forget it. It probably won’t work. It almost never does.
There are many different kinds of preparedness groups, usually based around a common belief or perception. However, close examination will often reveal that the same belief is not enough. Nor are the same politics, religion or expectations. Most of these groups implode.
The human dynamics come into play when you put people together and you quickly find out just how compatible you really are.
Groups must hold common values, morals, beliefs and have clear lines of communication, leadership and problem resolution.
Be careful. I am not advising against it, but this is a Pandora’s Box and once opened, can be deadly. Remember, groups implode, killing off each other, sometimes literally. Massive pressure is also created by society, law enforcement and others from without. Eventually, cracks appear and self-destruction ensues.
You’re as well off, if not better, sticking with family, close neighbours and friends. These ‘groups’ already have the ‘localness’ requirement (essential), lines of communications, understanding of habits, belief systems, ethics and many other very important factors, including private property. These groups are far from perfect, but they have a better foundation upon which to build then putting together relative strangers.
I’m certainly not against forming groups - in fact, I think they are essential. It’s the ‘how’ they are formed that is often overlooked and what it means.
Groups function ‘best’ when the surrounding infrastructure continues to provide. Take that away, and any group is subject to implosion. Which is in fact, exactly what happens when such organizations are stressed beyond their intended capacity, capabilities and expectations. This scenario is extremely likely in our near future.
Human relationships are built upon trust, communication, understanding and needs. This last point is almost always overlooked. This is why ‘knowing’ your support group intimately is going to be so important - people that can truly be relied upon and trusted and won’t leave you in a lurch or turn against you. I cannot emphasize this enough.
Trust cannot be bought in a survival situation, before or afterwards. Trust is earned, the hard way through time, commitment, loyalty and experience. Societal collapse will expose every lie, distortion and assumption you can possibly imagine.
Family has always been the core for groups and will remain so. Blood is thicker than water.
For most families, the commitment is already there and the desire for the family to live will be there too.
An important reminder and a good code to live by is to watch what people actually do. This applies to absolutely everyone. Not what they say, but what they do. This reveals their true heart and intentions and why you can see right through them so easily. Lying, backstabbing and gossip in a survival situation will get you very dead. Pay attention to this now.
Survival groups will form, but I no longer believe that small groups will survive. I’m not suggesting that the commentary above is wrong, I’m stating that small, isolated survival groups will have a very hard time of it because of a lack of diverse skills, security, infighting, resources and even opportunities to ‘better’ then situation.
Community survival has many advantages to small groups and I think this is a far better solution then winging it on your own or with your family. But even with the community, there are still the core groups. Community survival will probably be built upon these core groups, made up of many families. This is in effect, what we have today in our small towns.
A community will have a better chance because of the diversification of skills, labour, land and resources. They will also receive and wield authority and recognition of that authority, whereas a rogue band of survivalist won’t. This is going to be pretty important as lawlessness will be very prevalent.
Communities will also be able to setup barter, trade and labour exchange, even slavery, i.e. “work for food†if it degenerates to that. Medicine and medical treatment will be top priorities for the members. I’d expect fiefdoms and warlords eventually too. History has many examples of nations resorting to such “law and orderâ€Â. Law and order will be replaced with what works. A lot of our stupid laws and rules, permits, regulations and restrictions will be tossed right out the window. And a lot of would-be tyrants will try to take control. Get rid of them, by any means necessary (I am serious). They are and will be a serious danger to everyone.
The community will function best when everyone works. Respect is earned, not implied or demanded. Leaders that do not lead, but dictate, orchestrate or tyrant should not be tolerated by anyone. We’ve got enough of these leaches now; there won’t be any need for them in the future.
Communities will also have far better growing capabilities then small bands, marshalling labour and resources on a larger scale. They will also be able to deal with defensive issues against raiding parties and ‘outlaws’ far better than smaller groups. There will be both safety and oppression in numbers. This is one of the big advantages of communities over
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