BREXIT 40 billion ?

[Straight Shooter]

So you await angry posts do you Barney ? WHY ? because you vote Labour ? or you want to nationalise everything ? …..I have breaking news Barney ….labour/conservative makes no difference at all ….its fantasy and illusion that we have a choice when in fact we have none...….politicians promise much and deliver little most ALL have no real job experience and even less work experience , they preside in a bubble of self promotion and self gain and expenses , the major kick back to Brexit ….imo ….is they would come under a bigger microscope of how competent they really are at doing the job ….and not being able to blame the EU's policy's.....they will all alone !...…...career politicians are no use to man nor beast you need look no further than right now.....zoom in and have a look how totally insignificant they are , no matter what the colour flag …...we will always loose and they will always gain , its not rocket science , yet people still believe it the BS they pedal and perpetuate the same old s..t……...Brexit has proved to me at least …..our political system is dead, finished and exposed for what it really is .. corrupt to the core ! I have lost faith in it and all it represents , thing is old buggers like me remember the time when there were indeed good people that ran for office and well equipped to carry the responsibilities of the job , as the latest generations run forwards into the fray.....the existing old guard know how to manipulate and use them ……..that's most worrying . I voted OUT...meaning leave on 29th march 2019 no deal ! that's what was explained and that's why I voted simple as that ! and looking at the way we have been treated by these unelected idiots , its just strengthened my resolve and desire to leave ! …...funny how times change Barney 75 years ago we were laying down our lives and spilling blood ….for these bastards.....and here we are having to listen and put up with their crap.....if we leave or stay one thing I am certain of …..the E U will Collapse sooner rather than later....and in the words of that great historian (MB) ……
We are all Going to die !.

[LAC]

SS
Well said I couldn't have put it better myself. Politicians need to put their principles before the party whip, otherwise we just end up with a system of forced consensus. Trevor Phillips (who would be considered left wing) mentioned this recently, and I completely agree. So sometimes there are people from the other side politically who you can sometimes be in agreement with.

BB
I completely understand where you're coming from. You sound like traditional labour and someone you can have a conversation with rather than being stonewalled at the first mention of something a snowflake might sound offensive. Trouble is even your type is becoming rare these days (no offence intended). And yes I do agree that some municipal resources would probably be best served in the hands of the state depending on how they are managed, i.e. to serve the country and to ensure there are efficient well run services to allow free commerce to thrive, but not hijacked as a political tool.

[Mortblanc]

Really gentlemen, the study of the conditions of 75 years are hardly adequate.

When one studies the human political condition over the ages it becomes apparent that the natural state of politics is the rule of a strong man, a military dictator.

The name we place on that office of power can change or vary, but it is what it is.

All systems, no matter what they espouse, begin evolving into a military dictatorship as soon as the watch is wound. It will be either a right wing dictatorship or a left wing dictatorship. Either way if will be a man or a junta controlling a population without franchise, through force or threat of force (yes long jail terms for infractions are "force" it does not have to be an invasion).

Here in the U.S. the founders recognized this and set in place an attempt to control that situation through "checks and balances" and laws regulating influence of foreign government in our operation, and even within and between the individual states. You folks did it slowly over a period of 1000 years, without the sudden shift.

The political shenanigans we view and discuss are merely the push and pull of those pressing for the dictatorship and those trying to prevent it.

My feeling is that the EU, as it is now organized, is one of the easiest "governments" to transition into dictatorship that has ever been devised!

A political system separate and unanswerable to any of the member states, ruled by people who answer to unknown controlling forces, possibly an oligarch, possibly space aliens.

[Barneyboy]

Well this is good ,people with different views talking with each other,not trying to shout each other down ,,,I’m guilty of that Sometimes ,think we all are .my point is the old saying divide and conquer is alive and well, across the pond, as much as here .so what is the answer ,I think the whole system is buggered ,it needs a reboot

[MaryN]

I personally voted to Leave, actually for quite a number of reasons. I deeply resent my life being controlled by unelected bureaucrats in a country that is not mine, and see no good reason to accept this. Also, having actually lived in a country (France) where the citizens are heavily reliant on EU ponzi schemes, I could easily see where things were going. It was one of the reasons why we returned to the UK. We lived in a very rural part of Brittany with two farmers for neighbours. I asked one of them - a Le Pen supporter - what he thought of the EU and its constrictive and oppressive behaviour. He thought for a moment and then said : We (the citizens) were never asked for our opinions. The Government decided. He was then tied in for life to loans that were very restrictive. He had no choice as to when they could be repaid or varied. I asked if he could vary what he did for a living to help his finances, and he said "no". The loans made under the Agricultural Policy of the EU were pretty much designed to control what they did.

I also cannot understand why the young voters of the UK believe (poor little buggers) that they would lose so much opportunity by leaving the EU. So far as my own experience in France goes, the answer is that they are 100% better off in the UK and should count their blessings. The only opportunity for non French-speaking immigrants would be work in abattoirs, cafes, factories etc. The lowest of the low, and in France you actually have to have qualifications to work in a shop. I understand that it is ignorance of how the rest of Europe works, but the sheer stupidity of youngsters these days leaves me breathless! They have no idea.

[LAC]

MaryN
They are completely brainwashed/indoctrinated through the political system masquerading as an education system.

Interestingly I can confirm what you've said as I've had several holidays in Brittany, and on one occasion we got to speaking to a local farmer near our Gite - a lovely man who plied us with farm made calvados and gave us a bottle to take home with us - and I remember him saying similar things at the time, that he's locked into loans secured on his farm as part of the agricultural policy, barely makes enough to repay them etc. I guess the plan is to bankrupt the farmers then government/corporations step in and take their farms after they've completely over regulated them out of business, as they've done to many poor farms here.

[Straight Shooter]

Bang On LAC ! ……..the common thread globally...... Debt is the MAIN TOOL to enable complete CONTROL for the few...…. banks? ….backed up by a bought and paid for main media , you have to wonder WHO really runs the planet , just like layers of a onion each layer seems to reinforce the other ? ….slave planet ….MB may not be far off.. joking or not...…. space aliens …..the ultimate control is not even being aware of any control at all …….very much like myself and wild child ……..she has a saucer you know !