Colony

[bigpaul]

(18 April 2012, 09:24)00111001 Wrote: [quote='bigpaul' pid='13213' dateline='1334736969']
i cant say anything about other areas(as i dont know them that well/or not at all) but i know my own area very well, i have lived in this county for nearly 50 years. the main population areas are either in the 2 cities(Exeter and Plymouth) or around the coast(Torquay, Paignton, South Hams, Bideford & Barnstaple), once you get away from these areas you see small towns and even smaller villages with tiny populations, my own town has a population of 1300, i know villages where the populations are in the low hundreds and one place with a pop of 86! i have travelled this county of Devon, up and down, and from east to west, and there are places out in the countryside away from main roads where you wont see another person for days or weeks, and thats in good times, when TSHTF you wont see people just for days or weeks but for months(even years) at a time. what i am saying is that i could quite easily find a place, remote and isolated, where me and mine could remain hidden and unobserved for ages.

If TSHTF I'll load up the gear (and the wife an sproglett) an come say hello then! Not too far away (Southampton). Just need a trailer for all the supplies.

Plus there's some good cider out that way

[/quote) brother in law and family live near you- in Gosport!!!
if TSHTF we'll probably welcome any help! cheers!

[00111001]

Personally I'd go for a small holiday park / static caravan park on the coast somewhere. They're not all next to population hubs, a lot have their own fishing lakes too

[Skean Dhude]

The issue with Devon is it is at one end of the country. Everyone has a significant trek past several major population areas to get to it. Bristol is a choke point on its own. So although it may be better from a growing and climate view that is negated by the thravelling.

Wales is far enough away from Liverpool and Manchester In fact you could go nowhere near Liverpool to get to it although Manchester is an issue unless you went around it by heading north first. To get to wales from the midlands is easy though.

[bigpaul]

anyone travelling to Devon/Cornwall after an event will find there are 2 areas where bottlenecks will occur. 1 is where the A38/A30/M5 meet around Exeter. 2 is where The North Devon Link Road(otherwise known as the A361) meets the M5 around Tiverton Parkway. even travelling via Minehead on the coast road would find a great snarl up around Bridgwater and Taunton. this would be good for me as this will make my area virtually sealed off from the rest of the country.

[John]

My defence of why we chose the below.
John

DEVON /SOMERSET BORDER
( A SURVIVALISTS PERSPECTIVE )
This area usually conjures up images of quaint seaside towns & picture postcard villages and this image has helped to establish the county as one of the most popular holiday destinations in the United Kingdom.

The purpose of this article is to establish the area credentials as a survivalists retreat or permanent location.

CLIMATE
The West country‘s climate is well known for being mild, our winters are not particularly cold and the growing season starts early.

The weather can be very wet at times, the winter is now bringing flooding to some of our rivers quite regularly and this must be remembered when choosing a location. On a positive note, this also keeps our reservoirs full.

GROUND
The soil is very fertile and produces good volumes of crops and will support good livestock.
We do not have the “industrial farming” landscape, instead we have small farms with small field systems, and lots of them. This means we also have a high concentration of expertise in the more traditional methods of land management.
The proportion of useable agricultural land is fairly high, town sizes are not large in comparison with many other counties and the high moorland areas are not that big, so this leaves a good amount of workable farmland.

POPULATION
Density of population is not that high and compares well with the many areas in the north of the country.

PROPERTY
Devon and Somerset have very few “new towns”, the cites and larger towns are expanding, but not massively.

Move away from the larger towns and you will find a lot of small towns, villages and hamlets, tucked away in the network of tiny lanes. Most of these are small, selfreliant communities.

The actual properties are old and have “cobb” built walls. This is a traditional local method of constructing walls, using local stone, clay and straw, often resulting in walls three or four feet thick! This method of building definitely stands the test of time, as four & five hundred-year-old cottages are common place.

Most of these houses are built around a couple of fireplaces, some have wood burning stoves and /or “rayburn” type heating systems.

As most of the villages are old, wells or springs can be found in most of them, which is useful if the mains system fails.
The villages also seem to have a strong community spirit and newcomers seem to fit in quite quickly.


The inhabitants seem to have a wide range of skills, I think in a time of need most would cope well as the trades and experience seems quite broad.
Another advantage of these small communities is Security; outsiders “stand out”.

ROADS
The county has more miles of roads than any other does in Britain, but few of these are major roads. The major roads link the major towns and are the most used. If you choose your location carefully, it is quite easy to find towns and villages that few people “pass through” on their way to somewhere else.

The massive network of lanes means that even if all the major routes are at a “standstill”, in a crisis, you could still move about relatively easily by vehicle.

GEOGRAPHICAL BOUNDARIES
Any major “invasion” will come from only one direction – EAST. We are bounded to the North & South by the sea and to the West by Cornwall.

Every year in Devon and Somerset we rehearse the scenario of a large number of displaced persons flooding into the county, clogging all major roads and putting amassive strain on the counties resources, it’s called:

“THE SUMMER HOLIDAYS”.
All joking aside, the county is used to these changes in population, but in reality I think many would only make it as far as Dorset or East Somerset before their fuel runs out and petrol stations will have no fuel to sell, so many will try to settle there.

In saying that I do realise that you can get from London to the far west of Cornwall on one tank of fuel but I think in the survival situation this would be unlikely. Those who do make it into Devon will head for the places they know, the “holiday hotspots” and these will probably be Exmoor and the southern coast. Areas away from these and not on a road “to anywhere” are relatively unknown and should not face invasion by the desperate and unprepared.

TSHTF
So “what if”. Well if it all goes pear shaped on a national scale, this part of the country seems fairly self-sufficient. The cities and large towns may well have problems with civil unrest, but I think many will find security in staying put at first before moving out into the surrounding countryside. Some of the more informed may well “head for the hills”.
This is an important consideration, as the Government will want people to “stay put” and not congest the road networks.

The West Country has a large military presence, which will help in the control of large movements of refugees; those who remain in their communities will pose no threat and as said above the massive network of lanes means that even if all the major routes are at a “standstill”, in a crisis, you could still move about relatively easily by vehicle. Many of the small lanes have high bank hedges which add to security and can be seen to be little used with grass growing in the middle of the lane.

CONCLUSIONS
My personal opinion is that this part of the country has a lot going for it and if you choose your location carefully you could well ride out most storms in relative comfort.
The quality of life is pretty good too.
Devon and Somerset are definitely worth looking at as a long- term survival location.

(18 April 2012, 13:35)bigpaul Wrote: anyone travelling to Devon/Cornwall after an event will find there are 2 areas where bottlenecks will occur. 1 is where the A38/A30/M5 meet around Exeter. 2 is where The North Devon Link Road(otherwise known as the A361) meets the M5 around Tiverton Parkway. even travelling via Minehead on the coast road would find a great snarl up around Bridgwater and Taunton. this would be good for me as this will make my area virtually sealed off from the rest of the country.

[Paul]

Distant travel if TSHTF is tactically dangerous.
7.5 ton wagon travelling long distance, ROL down, or CBRN event?
Apart from TPTB setting up road controls, what about other refugees, fuel, mobs, etc?

[bigpaul]

(18 April 2012, 14:05)John Wrote: My defence of why we chose the below.
John

DEVON /SOMERSET BORDER
( A SURVIVALISTS PERSPECTIVE )
This area usually conjures up images of quaint seaside towns & picture postcard villages and this image has helped to establish the county as one of the most popular holiday destinations in the United Kingdom.

The purpose of this article is to establish the area credentials as a survivalists retreat or permanent location.

CLIMATE
The West country‘s climate is well known for being mild, our winters are not particularly cold and the growing season starts early.

The weather can be very wet at times, the winter is now bringing flooding to some of our rivers quite regularly and this must be remembered when choosing a location. On a positive note, this also keeps our reservoirs full.

GROUND
The soil is very fertile and produces good volumes of crops and will support good livestock.
We do not have the “industrial farming” landscape, instead we have small farms with small field systems, and lots of them. This means we also have a high concentration of expertise in the more traditional methods of land management.
The proportion of useable agricultural land is fairly high, town sizes are not large in comparison with many other counties and the high moorland areas are not that big, so this leaves a good amount of workable farmland.

POPULATION
Density of population is not that high and compares well with the many areas in the north of the country.

PROPERTY
Devon and Somerset have very few “new towns”, the cites and larger towns are expanding, but not massively.

Move away from the larger towns and you will find a lot of small towns, villages and hamlets, tucked away in the network of tiny lanes. Most of these are small, selfreliant communities.

The actual properties are old and have “cobb” built walls. This is a traditional local method of constructing walls, using local stone, clay and straw, often resulting in walls three or four feet thick! This method of building definitely stands the test of time, as four & five hundred-year-old cottages are common place.

Most of these houses are built around a couple of fireplaces, some have wood burning stoves and /or “rayburn” type heating systems.

As most of the villages are old, wells or springs can be found in most of them, which is useful if the mains system fails.
The villages also seem to have a strong community spirit and newcomers seem to fit in quite quickly.


The inhabitants seem to have a wide range of skills, I think in a time of need most would cope well as the trades and experience seems quite broad.
Another advantage of these small communities is Security; outsiders “stand out”.

ROADS
The county has more miles of roads than any other does in Britain, but few of these are major roads. The major roads link the major towns and are the most used. If you choose your location carefully, it is quite easy to find towns and villages that few people “pass through” on their way to somewhere else.

The massive network of lanes means that even if all the major routes are at a “standstill”, in a crisis, you could still move about relatively easily by vehicle.

GEOGRAPHICAL BOUNDARIES
Any major “invasion” will come from only one direction – EAST. We are bounded to the North & South by the sea and to the West by Cornwall.

Every year in Devon and Somerset we rehearse the scenario of a large number of displaced persons flooding into the county, clogging all major roads and putting amassive strain on the counties resources, it’s called:

“THE SUMMER HOLIDAYS”.
All joking aside, the county is used to these changes in population, but in reality I think many would only make it as far as Dorset or East Somerset before their fuel runs out and petrol stations will have no fuel to sell, so many will try to settle there.

In saying that I do realise that you can get from London to the far west of Cornwall on one tank of fuel but I think in the survival situation this would be unlikely. Those who do make it into Devon will head for the places they know, the “holiday hotspots” and these will probably be Exmoor and the southern coast. Areas away from these and not on a road “to anywhere” are relatively unknown and should not face invasion by the desperate and unprepared.

TSHTF
So “what if”. Well if it all goes pear shaped on a national scale, this part of the country seems fairly self-sufficient. The cities and large towns may well have problems with civil unrest, but I think many will find security in staying put at first before moving out into the surrounding countryside. Some of the more informed may well “head for the hills”.
This is an important consideration, as the Government will want people to “stay put” and not congest the road networks.

The West Country has a large military presence, which will help in the control of large movements of refugees; those who remain in their communities will pose no threat and as said above the massive network of lanes means that even if all the major routes are at a “standstill”, in a crisis, you could still move about relatively easily by vehicle. Many of the small lanes have high bank hedges which add to security and can be seen to be little used with grass growing in the middle of the lane.

CONCLUSIONS
My personal opinion is that this part of the country has a lot going for it and if you choose your location carefully you could well ride out most storms in relative comfort.
The quality of life is pretty good too.
Devon and Somerset are definitely worth looking at as a long- term survival location.

(18 April 2012, 13:35)bigpaul Wrote: anyone travelling to Devon/Cornwall after an event will find there are 2 areas where bottlenecks will occur. 1 is where the A38/A30/M5 meet around Exeter. 2 is where The North Devon Link Road(otherwise known as the A361) meets the M5 around Tiverton Parkway. even travelling via Minehead on the coast road would find a great snarl up around Bridgwater and Taunton. this would be good for me as this will make my area virtually sealed off from the rest of the country.

i think i have said all this,in parts, in the past! the one major barrier to anyone coming here after an event is called"THE RIVER EXE", this starts on Exmoor and ends up in the sea near Exeter, if the bridges arent maintained and the waterways arent managed, which lets face it they arent now, all we need is a good flood-which wont take much seeing as how we get a lot of rain, the river Exe will flood and Devon will be cut off from the rest of the country, the only way anybody will be able to get here then is by boat!!(by the way John, dont tell them all how good it is here or they'll all want to come!)

[Skean Dhude]

I read that a long time ago and don't disagree with any of it. However, instead of moving there, which is what this suggests, we are looking at travelling the length of the country to get there through several choke points, with no fuel resupply, stores and people. A more central location is easier for most. Thus North Wales.

[bigpaul]

(18 April 2012, 15:15)Skean Dhude Wrote: I read that a long time ago and don't disagree with any of it. However, instead of moving there, which is what this suggests, we are looking at travelling the length of the country to get there through several choke points, with no fuel resupply, stores and people. A more central location is easier for most. Thus North Wales.

yes please do SD, then John and i can stay here and enjoy paradise!!

[The Local Ned]

Whilst I can appreciate the motivation behind this exercise - the location is moot for anyone further north than Derby IMHO.

Easier locations with similar conditions and resources can be found around the peak district , and to an extent the yorks dales.So the bigger urban areas like Manchester / Liverpool may well avoid the trek down to Wales ?

All points North of Manchester , and south of carlisle will be headed for the lake district as their safe area , would be extremely naive to think there are better areas further away to bide your time in.

All points North East , towards the pennines no doubt.

Most big urban areas will be no-go zones , larger towns will become boltholes for the displaced city folks , smaller towns will become ghost towns - once the anarchy begins. Villages will probably batten the hatches and try to weather the storm as organised small communities always do , but against large or even smaller aggressive scavenger groups , they may well fall.

Simply by using Google maps , its quite possible to get a general feel of an area , I've never been to Wales , but I think I got most of the salient points correct in my summary of the location and what an organised prepper group may find / need there.
Do your homework and work out which areas will probably be no-go , which may be possible as scavenge targets , and which may possibly be capable of carrying on due to factors such as geographical features etc.

Do not be surprised to find that as society dissolves around us - the armed forces take and hold their nearest ground and consolidate their strength. Garrison areas might be a good bet , then again - under orders - they may just fall back into the larger urban areas to pacify any unrest.

Either way - somewhere remote , with good resources , is your best bet to avoid confrontation and violence once TSHTF.

---

@ Weyoun.

Those 7.5 tonners may well be looked on as someones potential transport to safety mate.
I have no ideas how you could actually achieve safety using those during a crisis...slow,cumbersome - hard to hide.

If I had cash - I would buy some very small plots of land in hilly areas - and build small reinforced bunker type buildings with good strong doors and cache some of your gear at various places - split it up on your likely axis of travel.

You get hijacked , you only lose some , not all.

Head to nearest cache and try to find new transport if possible , using some of those supplies to barter - as you say it will be as good as currency - might get you more transport.

Unless you get a good head start and are well ahead of a collapse then any road travel will be very hazardous.
You will no doubt come across civil authority roadblocks on the major routes which will be getting congested ,they will be trying to stem ,and get control of ,the exodus from the cities , vehicles will be searched, and anything useful - like ALL of the supplies on your 7.5 tonners , confiscated.

Minor routes will be easier to travel on , but will be more prone to hijackings / ambush.

Might I suggest - choose your safe area - one thats the easiest/quickest to get to, build a small garage/bunker and cache everything there , vehicles , the lot. Use deception - put signs around it as a 'telephone exchange' or something that nobody will be interested in...scatter some old rusty machinery around it and disguise the true purpose of the place , pay attention to detail, well oiled / new, hinges and padlocks are a dead giveaway that a place is in use or may store something valuable - despite what its outward appearance resembles.
When the time comes - get in your own transport and head for that area quickly, and mount up in the 7.5 tonners.
Time will be of the essence if you travel by main road to any proposed 'colony' area.So , have your route , alternate route , and an 'if all else fails' route prepared and constantly monitored for any works to be carried out on them , adjust accordingly.
Also - if the trip cannot be done in the one journey then have your stop off point identified and marked. Leave n o t h i n g to chance.

But as the motorway signs always say - EXPECT DELAYS.