OK hows this for a PMR 446

[NorthernRaider]

But they are licenced so my original comment stands they are not suitable for ordinary every day preppers who want to keep a few powerful radios in a box that only need batteries to make work, They are NOT suitable for ordinary preppers and survivalists if they require people to do courses and take exams, they are ideal for radio enthuisiasts. so the UV5R is 90% of the way to doing what basic preppers want, We just need a licence free version now.

---

Mon ami I dont need to do a course to own a compound bow, I dont need permission to carry a multi tool, and preppers already have more than enough on their plates without faffing about with Ham licences. But credit where credit is due the UV5R and the 50 50 appear to offer far more to preppers than 27fm CB

[Lightspeed]

(4 November 2012, 22:57)NorthernRaider Wrote: But they are licenced so my original comment stands they are not suitable for ordinary every day preppers who want to keep a few powerful radios in a box that only need batteries to make work, They are NOT suitable for ordinary preppers and survivalists if they require people to do courses and take exams, they are ideal for radio enthuisiasts. so the UV5R is 90% of the way to doing what basic preppers want, We just need a licence free version now.

This is going around and round in very strange circles NR.....are you on the juice tonight or have they changed your Meds?

You're confusing anyone who is reading this thread.

For anyone considering a grown up comms solution that's in walkie-talkie format the choices are handheld CB ( refer to Paul's many responses in this section) or something like the UV5r.

I wil say it again: The UV5r is the best value hand held radio you will find ( basic unit is 39 quid delivered). It is legal to own today, but you should not transmit on it without a license. If a SHTF incident happens you will have a communications device that will let you monitor and contact PMR446 users, Hams, Marine shipping , Coastguard, Air Sea Rescue, Mountain Rescue, and the Military. Additionally this radio has an inbuilt Broadcast band receiver so it can be used to monitor FM radio stations for news and announcements.

To give an idea of the potency of this type of device, they can, and have been used to hold two way communications with the crew of the orbiting International Space Station...... hopefully that's enough range even for you NR

[Skean Dhude]

NR, To take your example of a compound bow. You don't have permission to shoot anything with it. You probably, correct me if I'm wrong, will get arrested if you carry it in the street.

You can buy any radio you want. You can't use it on certain frequencies
You can buy any bow you want you can't shoot it certain places and you can only shoot certain targets
You can buy a UV5r and a bow, use it legally now and then however you want after TSHTF.

That is what you are doing with the bow, why is it such a problem with the radio?

[NorthernRaider]

(4 November 2012, 23:24)Skean Dhude Wrote: NR, To take your example of a compound bow. You don't have permission to shoot anything with it. You probably, correct me if I'm wrong, will get arrested if you carry it in the street.

You can buy any radio you want. You can't use it on certain frequencies
You can buy any bow you want you can't shoot it certain places and you can only shoot certain targets
You can buy a UV5r and a bow, use it legally now and then however you want after TSHTF.

That is what you are doing with the bow, why is it such a problem with the radio?

Bows are unlicenced and providing I'm not carrying it with an arrow nocked its actually legal, though most people carry them in cases or bags or fastened to rucksacks. UV5R is a device that is licenced by law and requires you to pay for and attend a course to operate, its also in my opiinion somewhat OTT for basic prepper needs. I feel we only need something like the CB but without the idiots, extra antenna, etc to do the job. If however new preppers wish to become outmoded dinosaurs like you and I then getting a UV5R and not bothering with the licence, just sticking with the 4 watts PMR 446 bit should suffice, Though I know our technogeeks will jump in to say 4 watts PMR is still illegal as well.

I am seeking a radio I can use NOW to its fullest capability that my group and family will be utterly familiar with, one that is LEGAL, not licenced, not full of foul mouth yobs like CB, I want to talk 10 miles line of site LEGALLY without mods, extra aerials etc so we build up a working network in advance.

[Martin200261]

(4 November 2012, 23:42)NorthernRaider Wrote:

(4 November 2012, 23:24)Skean Dhude Wrote: NR, To take your example of a compound bow. You don't have permission to shoot anything with it. You probably, correct me if I'm wrong, will get arrested if you carry it in the street.

You can buy any radio you want. You can't use it on certain frequencies
You can buy any bow you want you can't shoot it certain places and you can only shoot certain targets
You can buy a UV5r and a bow, use it legally now and then however you want after TSHTF.

That is what you are doing with the bow, why is it such a problem with the radio?

Bows are unlicenced and providing I'm not carrying it with an arrow nocked its actually legal, though most people carry them in cases or bags or fastened to rucksacks. UV5R is a device that is licenced by law and requires you to pay for and attend a course to operate, its also in my opiinion somewhat OTT for basic prepper needs. I feel we only need something like the CB but without the idiots, extra antenna, etc to do the job. If however new preppers wish to become outmoded dinosaurs like you and I then getting a UV5R and not bothering with the licence, just sticking with the 4 watts PMR 446 bit should suffice, Though I know our technogeeks will jump in to say 4 watts PMR is still illegal as well.

I am seeking a radio I can use NOW to its fullest capability that my group and family will be utterly familiar with, one that is LEGAL, not licenced, not full of foul mouth yobs like CB, I want to talk 10 miles line of site LEGALLY without mods, extra aerials etc so we build up a working network in advance.

The UV5R (or any other ham radio is not itself licenced. You need a licence in order to transmit with it.

A PMR446 radio is only permitted to be used without a licence so long as it meets the PMR446 specification which includes 0.5W output power and fixed antenna. The Intek at 4W and with replaceable antenna does not comply and so is not permitted to be used unlicenced.

In reality, if you use your Intek on the PMR446 frequencies you are unlikely to be bothered by anyone enforcing licencing just as you would if you used the UV5R or many other ham type walkietalkies on the PMR446 frequencies. The advantage of using the UV5R is that it CAN be used on many other frequencies outside the PMR446 allocation if the need arises and it has 5W output power.

No contest in my book.

[Lightspeed]

(4 November 2012, 23:42)NorthernRaider Wrote:

(4 November 2012, 23:24)Skean Dhude Wrote: NR, To take your example of a compound bow. You don't have permission to shoot anything with it. You probably, correct me if I'm wrong, will get arrested if you carry it in the street.

You can buy any radio you want. You can't use it on certain frequencies
You can buy any bow you want you can't shoot it certain places and you can only shoot certain targets
You can buy a UV5r and a bow, use it legally now and then however you want after TSHTF.

That is what you are doing with the bow, why is it such a problem with the radio?

Bows are unlicenced and providing I'm not carrying it with an arrow nocked its actually legal, though most people carry them in cases or bags or fastened to rucksacks. UV5R is a device that is licenced by law and requires you to pay for and attend a course to operate, its also in my opiinion somewhat OTT for basic prepper needs. I feel we only need something like the CB but without the idiots, extra antenna, etc to do the job. If however new preppers wish to become outmoded dinosaurs like you and I then getting a UV5R and not bothering with the licence, just sticking with the 4 watts PMR 446 bit should suffice, Though I know our technogeeks will jump in to say 4 watts PMR is still illegal as well.

I am seeking a radio I can use NOW to its fullest capability that my group and family will be utterly familiar with, one that is LEGAL, not licenced, not full of foul mouth yobs like CB, I want to talk 10 miles line of site LEGALLY without mods, extra aerials etc so we build up a working network in advance.

Hi NR,

I was going to write that for YOU there is no legal to operate now solution that will meet your criteria.

Maybe there is a solution. Some CB manufacturers are now producing radios with CTCSS code capability. These are top end rigs and thus relatively expensive compared to entry level gear. It is VERY unlikely that the idiots of whom you complain will have invested in such technology, so if your group were to all be equipped with CTCSS enabled gear, you will probably be able to enjoy idiot-free communications ( especially if you do not mention any reference to CTCSS or the model of rigs you are using on air).

I don't recommend these radios as general prepper comms at this time as they are expensive and not in widespread use, although I presume that someone with sufficiently deep pockets might acquire one and use it with CTCSS turned off for general conns post SHTF. I'm pointing you the way on this NR, the rest of the research you'll have to do yourself.

=========================================

Comparison of legality and usefulnessof a UV5r to a compound bow.

A UV5r type radio will not get you arrested for carrying an offensive wepon, even if just tucked in a jacket pocket.

A UV5r type radio will not get you arrested for listening to any of the frequencies it it capable of.

The UV5r is NOT a complicated device. Want to see a complicated device? download the operating manual for the Yaesu VX3r or the VX-8 series.

Continuing the Compound bow comparison, how do you go about live testing the bow as a personal protection device? Are you actually allowed to hunt and kill wild animals with such a bow completely legally in the UK? i think not, but correct me if I'm wrong. All you can legally do is shoot targets. But I'm not shouting to the prepper community that such bows are toys for boys and not worth bothering with, simply because I cannot carry then with an arrow noched up and ready to fly the moment I feel threatened or the moment i get a clear shot at some unwary little creature. Although on that subject my own preps mirror BP's and use long bows on the basis of KISS.

For practising communications in a guaranteed legal manner at the current time you will have to use type approved radio gear. That means dedicated PMR446 or compliant CB gear. UV 5r vs Intek MT 5050? Get yourself a UV5r and a couple of compliant PMR446s to practice with straight away, and you'll still have change from what you'd have paid for the Intek.

Final comparison

A compound bow will potentially benfit you post SHTF but you cannot carry it and use it in the public environment today. Same goes for the UV5r

And final comment
It is possible to use the UV5r in the public environment today, as long as the user has an Amateur license. These cost 25 quid to sit and are achievable by pretty much anyone with half a brain. So again cost wise UV5r plus Ham license cost lest than an Intek MT5050.
.... and no, the radio license isn't difficult to get....I've trained successful candidates from 10 years old to 70 years old and ony ever had one person fail on me. The rest passed first go.

Is there a qualification that allows me to stride about town with arecurve bow noched up and ready to go? No, I thought not.

[The Local Ned]

(4 November 2012, 22:57)NorthernRaider Wrote: But they are licenced so my original comment stands they are not suitable for ordinary every day preppers who want to keep a few powerful radios in a box that only need batteries to make work, They are NOT suitable for ordinary preppers and survivalists if they require people to do courses and take exams, they are ideal for radio enthuisiasts. so the UV5R is 90% of the way to doing what basic preppers want, We just need a licence free version now.

---

Mon ami I dont need to do a course to own a compound bow, I dont need permission to carry a multi tool, and preppers already have more than enough on their plates without faffing about with Ham licences. But credit where credit is due the UV5R and the 50 50 appear to offer far more to preppers than 27fm CB

1. I must have posted one lot of shite on the comms forums recently then as I thought most of those querys were dealt with.

2. I own and operate a Baofeng UV-5R , and a Baofeng BF888-S , I 've already posted details of how the UV-5R handset operates and the results I've achieved with it.

3.I am not a fkn rocket scientist , and have sat NO exams to use this radio on anything other than 446Mhz , but it hasn't stopped me trying.

4.When TSHTF it wont matter one teeny weeny bit if I have a licence or not - I WILL have a radio thats EASY to use, on local repeaters that are powered off grid , and that are capable of communicating with fkn Cumbria , just like I did at the weekend...with my UV-5R on 146Mhz.

NOBODY is going to come looking for you for using 4W on PMR , believe me , as its FREE to use then the likelihood of busby doing the rounds again for 446 outlaws are slim to nothing...there's no license fees to bolster it anymore = no action unless the user is making a severe nuisance of themselves.

Honestly NR - what you are asking for is a car with the performance of an F1 racer but with the fuel economy of a citroen 2cv.

Never going to happen in a free to use , unlicensed form.

Legal handhelds with a GUARANTEED 10 mile range no matter what....using only 4 watts ?
-The army would LOVE those mate.

Legal mobiles with a GUARANTEED 10 mile range no matter what....be prepared for an 8ft antenna.
-It's called amateur radio.

We used clansman 349s and 351s in Belfast , the 351 ( 4W ) sometimes struggled to get from one SF base to another a few miles up the road , but the 349 was perfect for knocking about the streets with and you could contact another brick a few hundred yards away no bother on a 1/4 watt.

Horses for courses as I've mentioned before.

We've had the big radio debate , we posted up our findings.

THERE'S NO easily attainable HOLY GRAIL IN RADIO COMMS.

If you want comms with decent range, then you need to put a bit of time and effort into learning about radio and how to use them more effectively.

You DONT GET ADVANCED SOLUTIONS out the box , at least not one a novice can pick up and use , this should be obvious by now.

I was going to put up another small post regarding my latest results with the UV-5R , and a comparison with the BF888-S and my thoughts on that handset.
I wont bother now - as its already been mentioned , we're going round in circles - despite the time and effort being put in by people - who had already told everyone that would listen , that standardising radio equipment for our prepper groups was a non-starter to begin with. and that a better solution was to agree on a frequencyon a band ( or a certain channel ) that we could use to try and contact each other if or when the situation arose.

TLN down and clear.

[NorthernRaider]

"Honestly NR - what you are asking for is a car with the performance of an F1 racer but with the fuel economy of a citroen 2cv.

Never going to happen in a free to use , unlicensed form."

Then my highland friend its no use to my group, I want my radio system up and running and established long BEFORE the SHTF and the licencing and technical shortcomings show me for my group at least that radios are no good for what I want. It is 14 miles to my wifes place of work and 5 miles to my sons school, when he goes to sixth form that will increase to nearly 16 miles. I need a simple radio, not clogged by foul mouth chavs playing music, channel numbers not frequencies, no relay or repeaters etc. In this area as the others like RW will confirm there is a hill every two miles in the way, only a modest hill but it screws up radios at the best of times.

A working radio system for my group needs to be up, operational, bugs sorted out now, deadspots indentified etc BEFORE TSHTF, and as you good gentlemen keep pointing out neither CB / HAM or PMR fill those needs without to many short cuts, so my answer for my group remains two way radios dont work for me I can not and will not rely on a flawed, unreliable, over complicated system that if I want up and running now will require huge antenna/ repeaters/ licences or courses so I wont go down the radio route as its a waste of time for THIS area. I'm sure its fine for others with different geography or willing to comprimise.

---

THERE'S NO easily attainable HOLY GRAIL IN RADIO COMMS.

Then sir its no good for me, just like petrol engined vehicles, electronically controlled and ignited boilers, mains water supplies etc

[Lightspeed]

C'Mon NR you're a military man.

You know that other than through repeaters, including satelite, that what you are looking for is not even possible using military portable gear.

The police and emergency services cannot easily cover that sort of area either.

Teaching you to suck eggs here: This is first base stuff. You need to adapt your plan to acommodate the physical environment and the kit available.

My group is spread over a similar geographic area and just using 1/2 watt and 2w HTs our emergency plan lets us regroup succesfully in a grid down scenario.

[Lightspeed]

(6 November 2012, 00:46)The Local Ned Wrote:

(4 November 2012, 22:57)NorthernRaider Wrote: But they are licenced so my original comment stands they are not suitable for ordinary every day preppers who want to keep a few powerful radios in a box that only need batteries to make work, They are NOT suitable for ordinary preppers and survivalists if they require people to do courses and take exams, they are ideal for radio enthuisiasts. so the UV5R is 90% of the way to doing what basic preppers want, We just need a licence free version now.

---

Mon ami I dont need to do a course to own a compound bow, I dont need permission to carry a multi tool, and preppers already have more than enough on their plates without faffing about with Ham licences. But credit where credit is due the UV5R and the 50 50 appear to offer far more to preppers than 27fm CB

1. I must have posted one lot of shite on the comms forums recently then as I thought most of those querys were dealt with.

2. I own and operate a Baofeng UV-5R , and a Baofeng BF888-S , I 've already posted details of how the UV-5R handset operates and the results I've achieved with it.

3.I am not a fkn rocket scientist , and have sat NO exams to use this radio on anything other than 446Mhz , but it hasn't stopped me trying.

4.When TSHTF it wont matter one teeny weeny bit if I have a licence or not - I WILL have a radio thats EASY to use, on local repeaters that are powered off grid , and that are capable of communicating with fkn Cumbria , just like I did at the weekend...with my UV-5R on 146Mhz.

NOBODY is going to come looking for you for using 4W on PMR , believe me , as its FREE to use then the likelihood of busby doing the rounds again for 446 outlaws are slim to nothing...there's no license fees to bolster it anymore = no action unless the user is making a severe nuisance of themselves.

Honestly NR - what you are asking for is a car with the performance of an F1 racer but with the fuel economy of a citroen 2cv.

Never going to happen in a free to use , unlicensed form.

Legal handhelds with a GUARANTEED 10 mile range no matter what....using only 4 watts ?
-The army would LOVE those mate.

Legal mobiles with a GUARANTEED 10 mile range no matter what....be prepared for an 8ft antenna.
-It's called amateur radio.

We used clansman 349s and 351s in Belfast , the 351 ( 4W ) sometimes struggled to get from one SF base to another a few miles up the road , but the 349 was perfect for knocking about the streets with and you could contact another brick a few hundred yards away no bother on a 1/4 watt.

Horses for courses as I've mentioned before.

We've had the big radio debate , we posted up our findings.

THERE'S NO easily attainable HOLY GRAIL IN RADIO COMMS.

If you want comms with decent range, then you need to put a bit of time and effort into learning about radio and how to use them more effectively.

You DONT GET ADVANCED SOLUTIONS out the box , at least not one a novice can pick up and use , this should be obvious by now.

I was going to put up another small post regarding my latest results with the UV-5R , and a comparison with the BF888-S and my thoughts on that handset.
I wont bother now - as its already been mentioned , we're going round in circles - despite the time and effort being put in by people - who had already told everyone that would listen , that standardising radio equipment for our prepper groups was a non-starter to begin with. and that a better solution was to agree on a frequencyon a band ( or a certain channel ) that we could use to try and contact each other if or when the situation arose.

TLN down and clear.

Thanks for your comments on the trusty Clansman TLN

Inadverently I fear that onlookers will have beed disuaded from radio coms because of some of the comments made on here.

Using the Clansman VHF gear as yardsticks for realistic radio performance expectation, i did a little research to compare the units you mentioned to current commercial gear in the table below


Comparison: portable Military gear to current Commercial gear.

Clansman PRC 349 VHF FM 3kg 0.25w Max Range 1 mile

Clansman PRC 351 VHF FM 7.5kg 4w Max Range 6 miles

Baofeng UV5r VHF+UHF FM 0,2 Kg 5w / 4 w Max range 6 miles

Intek H520 CB ( HF) FM 0,9Kg 4.5w Max range 6 miles

Conclusion: Portable equipment is generally limited to 6 miles range, unless geography is very favorable.

The commercial gear, one Dual Band VHF / UHF wankie talkie and and one Portable CB unit perform just as well as the better of the two army portable radios, but weigh a damned sight less. Addressing the complaint thatthe CB unit eats batteries, I'd be able to lug a small 12v accumulator around with me and still have lighter kit than the military gear!

We have to be realistic about waht radio coms can do, especially when we're talking of portable equipment. If anyone's interested in how one of compared low cost commercial units can be beefed up to be truely field portable and achieve maximum reliable range, look at TLN's excellent article on the main site.

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OOps any one spot the typo!!

Walkie Talkie

Thought I'd better correct tha quickly!