Expectations when hunting with bows.

[Preacher]

I apologise unreservedly to anyone offended by what I say in this post, but there is so much undue glamourisation of bow hunting and bow craft in the media that it has attained an unrealistic level of of acceptability. There are many myths around bowhunting and unfortunately, they've been around so long that many people take them as fact. So it's important to highlight the pros and cons more clearly. Overstating the usefulness of bows for hunting is also going to persuade some preppers to spend money they haven't got, on something they don't need and can't use!

Stone age and Bronze age man hunted in groups for good reason. They could hit a deer, or other medium sized prey animal with 10 arrows simultaneously and slow it down just enough to catch it easily... Their modern modern primitive conterparts learn their skills from the cradle, live in areas where the wildlife is usually small, happy to let them get quite close and have the knowledge to create poisons, make and replace anything lost, or broken.... WE ARE NOT LIKE THEM,!!!... Bows as hunting tools became obsolete in temperate riegions for a reason.

A good, accurate arrow, or bolt that misses its target, in the kind of environment that's good for hunting in temperate climates is more likely to be lost or damaged beyond repair by trees, stones, etc. than found in good shape... And cheap arrows are more likely to be lost, or broken in the first place through Inaccuracy.

You will not be targeting small game and birds unless you have an inexhaustible supply of shafts and, or bolts... Even a good archer will miss 3 out of 4 rabbits/birds Etc at around 30 yards with a good, purpose built recurve hunting bow, while even the best crossbow addict is unlikely to get better than an even chance. And can any of us honestly afford to run out of ammunition?

Most larger prey are unlikely to let you get closer than 50/60 yards (except domesticated animals which don't warrant shooting) and recurve bows below 80/90lbs draw weight, or even medium/heavy weight crossbows will need good quality (and expensive) broadheads to slow them down sufficiently to be able to track them before they get out of your area (unless you hit them in the heart), which is highly unlikely (most experienced hunters with powerful 100lb+ recurves won't even bother with anything further away than 50 yards)

Add to all that the fact that a wounded animal will often run off faster than you would expect an uninjured one to move and you begin to see the problem.

That leaves only one sensible choice for a lone hunter, armed with a bow... The compound hunting bow (80lb draw and 320fps minimum) with at least a good quality 5 pin sight, launcher, release aid, good quality (heavy aluminium) shafts, fitted with good, well balanced, broadheads..... And then (only after spending £750 or more) you have a better than even chance of bringing down small/medium deer or similar, without having to track it down too far after its been hit... The arrow itself though may well hit bone somewhere along the way, ruining it.... Bummer!

So I've been all negative, and rained on everyone's parade, and slagged off the idea of bow-hunting and if I were you, I'd be asking "If you know so much about it, why do you do it?" .... Simple... It's been a hobby of mine for decades, and that's the point.... It's a hobby... It's fun, it costs money to do it because even with soft targets and soft terrain arrows get lost and damaged... Even in the US where bow hunting is legal, people spend small fortunes on the best equipment and still come home from a weekends hunt without a single kill and half a dozen arrows less..... I wouldn't risk wasting my arrows in a survival situation when I can kill small game far more easily by using an air rifle, nets, snares, traps etc. and as for larger animals, I'm not going to compete out in the open with other armed hunters and risk injury, which in itself could be catastrophic.

Post SHTF My bow will be my chosen weapon of defence. Pure and simple. A shotgun is unlikely to kill a person at 100 yards. The shot wont penetrate all that far and Youll survive whereas from the same distance, a silent, heavy, hunting arrow will leave a man unable to move, bleeding out, with a 29.25" stepped aluminium tube sticking through his torso... And if you don't believe me, just go to any archery club meet on a Sunday morning and watch people use lightweight (60lbs) compound bows, to put 6 lightweight shafts in an area the size of a peach at 100 metres. Time after time... And still penetrate right through the target boss, with blunt, bullet shaped piles!

[Skean Dhude]

Not raining on anyones parade. This is what we want; Opinions with facts to back them up. My experience with bows has been poor and I'm not very good with them. Better with a crossbow though. I will still keep what I have but it may help others who have not bought one yet to prioritise and target other areas. (pun intended)

[bigpaul]

there will be times post TSHF when you wont want to hunt with an air rifle because any noise may give away your position to groups you may be trying to avoid, but you still need to go hunting to put meat on the table, this is where a bow will come into its own.

[Preacher]

(15 February 2012, 17:53)bigpaul Wrote: there will be times post TSHF when you wont want to hunt with an air rifle because any noise may give away your position to groups you may be trying to avoid, but you still need to go hunting to put meat on the table, this is where a bow will come into its own.

Unfortunately, the quietest bow capable of killing at more than 20 yards makes far more noise than a spring charged air rifle fitted with a cheap suppressor.

[bigpaul]

(15 February 2012, 18:12)Preacher Wrote:

(15 February 2012, 17:53)bigpaul Wrote: there will be times post TSHF when you wont want to hunt with an air rifle because any noise may give away your position to groups you may be trying to avoid, but you still need to go hunting to put meat on the table, this is where a bow will come into its own.

Unfortunately, the quietest bow capable of killing at more than 20 yards makes far more noise than a spring charged air rifle fitted with a cheap suppressor.

you must have a flipping noisy bow then! thats all i can say, my air rifles are more noisy than my bow string any day.

[Tartar Horde]

I've used a bow a lot, but for obvious reasons don't want to elaborate on location. I dissagree with some of Preachers points and would like to share my experience.
Small game and birds present no problem to the archer, as the real key is your skill in field craft to get you into shooting range. Shooting at small game 30yds or more is a waste of time and I agree with Preacher on this. The vast majority of small game I have harvested has been 15yds and under. It's the same principle for larger animals, you have to use your field craft to defeat the animals senses. If you just walk round with a bow hoping to get a shot you will be dissapointed. Find out where the animals feed, water etc, look for trails that the animals use and position yourself in ambush.
I have never used a compound bow, I shoot a composite Mongolian type bow, barebow with wooden arrows, 60lbs @28. It is not neccesary to have a compound bow with large draw weights to be an effective hunting weapon. Any bow with a draw weight of fifty pounds will kill any animal in the UK. If you are within range enough to be accurate and hit the chest, any large animal, sheep, cow, deer etc it will be dead within thirty to fifty yards if it runs. Many do not run and just expire on the spot. Small game does not go anywhere as the arrows tend to have so much energy at close range they kill very quickly. The majority of Hunting recurves and classical bow types are very quiet when shot. This is definately not the case with compound bows, they are hideously noisy.

[Preacher]

My points weren't aimed at people already highly skilled and experienced in archery, or bow hunting techniques and field craft, who are capable of using Mongolian, or other short limbed, composite bows which because of their construction have a greater cast than standard recurve bows, but require more skill to use accurately, or with the knowledge to set up string silencers well enough to make them silent below 50 yards...

They were aimed at the vast majority of people who throughout their lives have seen characters like Robin Hood and Rambo in films and television performing feats that even world class archers wont attempt, without realising just how rediculous they are, giving the impression that bow hunting without years of practice and some natural skill can be picked up by anyone and will be anything but a waste of arrows...

Most archery club members with a couple of years experience (200-300 hours at 100 shots per hour) would have a little more than a 50/50 chance at a pigeon at 15-20 yards and those same people would have little, or no chance of hitting a muntjac, or small roe in the chest with a broadhead before it sensed them and legged it, leading them to shoot at greater range, lose 1 out of every three arrows and end up with a very expensive ornament.... When for the same money they could have bought a good Pre-charged air rifle, with suppressor that a child could kill pigeons and pheasants with all day long for 1p per shot..

[Tartar Horde]

(16 February 2012, 01:27)Preacher Wrote: My points weren't aimed at people already highly skilled and experienced in archery, or bow hunting techniques and field craft, who are capable of using Mongolian, or other short limbed, composite bows which because of their construction have a greater cast than standard recurve bows, but require more skill to use accurately, or with the knowledge to set up string silencers well enough to make them silent below 50 yards...

They were aimed at the vast majority of people who throughout their lives have seen characters like Robin Hood and Rambo in films and television performing feats that even world class archers wont attempt, without realising just how rediculous they are, giving the impression that bow hunting without years of practice and some natural skill can be picked up by anyone and will be anything but a waste of arrows...

Most archery club members with a couple of years experience (200-300 hours at 100 shots per hour) would have a little more than a 50/50 chance at a pigeon at 15-20 yards and those same people would have little, or no chance of hitting a muntjac, or small roe in the chest with a broadhead before it sensed them and legged it, leading them to shoot at greater range, lose 1 out of every three arrows and end up with a very expensive ornament.... When for the same money they could have bought a good Pre-charged air rifle, with suppressor that a child could kill pigeons and pheasants with all day long for 1p per shot..

I agree with your point about Hollywood and Archery, they are in the bussiness of entertainment, and as such accuracy in its reproduction is not high on their list. The chances of anyone just picking up a bow after a SHTF scenario, and thinking they can hunt effectively without any practice or understanding is dellusional and I also agree with this point.

Regarding the noise a bow makes when shot I can only give my experience. I have never used String silencers on any of my Hunting recurves, longbows or composite bows as I honestly believe they are a waste of money. I also know that if you do fit string silencers the speed of your bow will drop because of the drag and weight on the string. If you set the bow up with the correct number of turns on the string, make sure your bracing height is correct, and most importantly shoot the correct weight arrows, any traditional bow will be very quiet and undetectable at thirty yards, I tested this a few years ago with an Archery friend. At 15-20yds you hear a slight "thum" but the arrow is so fast at this distance there is no reaction time.
Accuracy regarding Archery club members raises some interesting points. There should be a distinction between "target" archery and "Field" archery. Target archers shoot at known distances and use targets of the same size, and as such do not have to develop a good judgement of "range", in relation to target size. Field archery involves shooting a variety of different sized targets at unknown distance, this is perfect practise for hunting and was developed as such. Anyone considering using archery in a post SHTF scenario would be well recommended to join a field archery club.
If our archery club member in our scenario was in a target archery club, without any training in bowhunting, I would also suggest he buy any good air rifle. If the archer was a well trained Field archer, of which there are many in the UK, it would be a different matter.
Any weapon takes a bit of getting used to before you can realise its true potential, and this is true for any rifle. Although PCP rifles have the potential to be very accurate I don't believe you can just pick one up and be accurate, let alone a child, you have to learn to shoot them. How many hours and countless pelletts have we all spent "plinking" to get accurate with our air rifles? In a SHTF could someone afford to spend the time and ammo to get good enough to hunt effectively with their new rifle?

[mikebratcher69]

I think you'll find thats why traps were invented.... Pit falls, nets, running a herd off cliffs etc bigger better results if theres more of you to feed.

[Skean Dhude]

My air rifles are really quiet. In fact my FAC .22 is quiet suppressed. You hear a very short crack and that is it. The FAC is as quiet as the AIr Rifle.

My experience of bows is minimal but my crossbow isn't noisy. What noise it makes can only be suppressed by firing from under a blanket. OK for a crossbow.