the beginning of the end.

[Midnitemo]

I love the idea of commune's and everybody helping each other , comunity spirit and all that but i've read Animal Farm and watched the unravelling of the Soviet union with all the corruption and human rights abuses that came to the fore when the iron curtain fell....man is an evil self serving creature , i've seen a pregnant woman punched and kicked to the ground for her MRE....be wary of mutual support when man is up against it.

[bigpaul]

IF TPTB DID survive the collapse, doubtful but lets say they did, they WOULDNT take it off us(unless they decided to start a COMMUNIST government!) they would want us to succeed and expand to feed the survivors. but your missing the point AGAIN! this thread was about YOU, how are you going to survive? where are you getting YOUR seeds from? where are you getting your animals from? but I guess seeing the way this thread is going you aren't going to bother! your going to wait until its safe to come out of your little hidey hole and just TAKE from others who have BOTHERED to think ahead. I haven't read one thing yet that shows me you have even THOUGHT about providing for yourself, stealing seems to be about the sum of it.

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sorry, but that's how it reads!

[Midnitemo]

I will do what i said in post no2 if that fails i'd think of plan b .....scythes market garden sounds good....i'll have virtually no neighbours so should be a goer

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just because i know little about animal husbandry and agriculture doesn't mean i don't have someone who does.....i'm still very much in the early stages with my preps so yes there are some glaring big gaps at the moment that i would have to try and fill illicitly if it happened tommorrow but you've misread me i'm not a leech or a natural theif just a realist.

[bigpaul]

joining a group that is already set up may not be so easy, they may NOT want you hard as that may sound, they might be like me and not trust strangers. starting your own market garden-again I repeat- where are you getting your seeds from? the time to start collecting seeds is NOW not after TSHTF.

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I have to say, joining an already set up group still sounds like you are expecting some one else to make sure you survive, its not really being responsible for your own survival. I'm still not hearing anything that makes me think you are doing anything about surviving until AFTER TSHTF, then its someone else's problem.

[Midnitemo]

My Father in law is a keen gardener , my daughter is doing a levels working towards being a vet...keeps chickens and guinea pigs(the south american fast food lol)in fact she has a bloody menagerie...does that answer your question...gramps is very good and very old school

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seeds are on the list just not got there yet

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only started making a propper effort to prep since july last year...give me chance lol

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I only suggested moving onto a farm because of your phenomenal die off figures

[bigpaul]

well I suppose that's a start.

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I got the kind of answers I was expecting (but hoping not) to get.

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the 95-97% die off figures weren't mine..they were taken from a report that was given to me.

[NorthernRaider]

At the end of the day all any of us can do is make an edumukated guess as to how things will play out after TSHTF, the only thing most of us agree upon is the believe that a societal collapse in one form or another is inevitable.
My own limited belief is that cities are going to become pretty awful places pretty quick with millions of city dwellers (with few practical skills) utterly reliant on the logistics systems to provide them with food, water, power, waste disposal, transport, medical care etc. I've made my bed and I'll lay in it and hope for the best.

[TOF]

Yet again, it's the BP and NR show proving that you don't really want sensible answers or another persons perspective unless it agrees with your version of prepping and how everyone will react.
NEWS FLASH! Your way isn't the only way.
You two really can't wait for SHTF can you? All these bad things that, in your paranoid little world are supposed to be the end of civilisation as we know simply won't happen! We've seen economic collapse of a monumental scale before, and the world didn't go back to the dark ages, people didn't die in their millions, the lights didn't even go off! Read your history. In fact, go and find an elderly member of your community and ask them about the period 1928-1935. The financial world went into meltdown and yet here we are. If the European union collapsed tomorrow, we would be in a similar position to Iceland several years ago when their banking system went belly-up. I didn't hear that Icelanders were fighting each other for that final crust, or that the Icelandic population almost vanished overnight. I have no doubt their life got tougher because of their financial predicament, but to my recollection Icland is still right there with us in the 21st century.
You two are the ones who wouldn't last 5 minutes. Your 'Amish Lifestyle', BP is hellacious to manage alone and at your age and fitness level, you wouldn't even see out the first year. Amish communities have one of the most efficient support system in the world, that's the reason they are so successful. Why do you think they fear social shunning so much?
And from what you've said over the years, NR, your physical condition is such, that you will be directing SHTF from an armchair.LOL the original armchair prepper.
Why can't you give all your doom and gloom a rest.

[bigpaul]

the reason it WILL go all TU TOF, is unlike previous generations we now have a society DIVORCED from where there food comes from, most people don't know where there food comes from and whats more don't WANT to know, on top of that we have an overpopulated world, the biggest population we have EVER had, living cheek by jowl in the cities, living off the proceeds of fossils set down millions of years ago, a FINITE source that is fast running out. any disease will spread very quickly in this era of fast foreign travel, its not a question of IF the S will hit the fan its more a case of when, and anyone who dosent believe that and dosent make preparations for it is living in cloud cuckoo land.

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actually TOF you mention my fitness levels, YOU DONT KNOW my fitness levels, I may walk slower than those 30 years my age-the young turks- but I am fitter and healthier than people I see around me-my age and younger.

[NorthernRaider]

Tof exactly which bit about

"RE: the beginning of the end.
At the end of the day all any of us can do is make an edumukated guess as to how things will play out after TSHTF,."

Don't you understand? are you truly THAT thick?

All any of us can do is make an assessment on how things MAY play out, each of us has an opinion, I have mine and you have yours, both are perfectly valid.
I suggest you study the great recession yourself in great depth and see how many people died prematurely from ill health brought on by disease, bad died, violence all caused by the economic collapse. TB, Cholera, malnutrition, even measles wiped out huge numbers of people here and in the US. I believe a societal collapse is inevitable, it does not mean society will not rebuild and recover, history shows collapse followed by rebuild time after time.

I hope TSHTF never occurs but history is not on my side, we suffer boom and bust and pandemics and wars every few years

NOW here is the important bit, TOF please show us all EXACTLY where I have ever said or even implied I do not want to hear or consider other peoples opinions?

I suggest that it is in fact YOU TOF you do not wish to consider other peoples viewpoints and / or you don't wish to consider all the implications involved.

So c'mon TOF please post the evidence you have that I don't want to consider any one elses opinions other than my own.

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BTW though I hurt my back two years ago and have just got over meningitis, I am exceedingly fit and healthly, I still hike, cycle, shoot, and practical judo. Indeed at the well man clinic just before the meningitis attack I passed my medical with flying colours.

So please instead of being a snidy know it all please either post facts to counter or disprove my beliefs, I'm receptive to educated advice fro most sources.