Where Most Prepping Falls Short:

[Barneyboy]

yeah dev ,let the old and ill stave to death mate ,talking bollocks again dev

[John]

Well I thank you for many varied responses.
At least it has confirmed to me that the majority who appear to be preppers still have their eyes firmly closed on the long term. They treat it as a joke that it will all be over in short period and back to some semblance of normality. The biggest thing is that they don’t even want to discuss or debate it. They are so entrenched in their own view, especially some of our American friends who appear to think they are God’s gift to the world, that they don’t even consider other views. As Mortblanc kindly said, ‘Been a long time since I read that much BS in such a compact form.’
That comment just goes to show the arrogance of some of our American ‘friends’.
I was quite prepared to debate this seriously but the comments posted say I would only be hitting my head against a brick wall.
I no longer consider it worth my while staying on the site. I don’t even see the point in looking at it.
If you do wish to contact me and I doubt you will, but just in case. Let Big Paul have your email address and he will forward it to me.
Preppers generally cannot think into the longer term. As stated at the beginning of the post, we must use what we have, from what is initially left, use it wisely not for the now but to get us to a future without what we have now. Do not kid yourself if the collapse is really bad or maybe even half bad you are going to lose electricity and once you do for anything other than maybe a few days that will be it. Yes you may have your solar panels that may last a few years but eventually they are going to breakdown or wear out and no matter how many spare parts you stock they will soon be gone.
But many cannot see this and fail to plan for life without it. Not just maybe for themselves but for those that follow. The same applies for much of what we take for granted today. "Survivalists are preppers, preppers are not survivalists" and therein lies the problem.
I will be requesting SD to remove my details from this list as I see no point in continuing.
I take on board what Mortblanc says: When you hear that small inner voice speaking to you, consider the source and ignore it. I hear and I am ignoring it.
Best of Luck

[Devonian]

(1 December 2014, 17:48)bigpaul Wrote: most farming these days is done on an industrial level, as NR says heavy on man made pesticides and fertilisers, using the "monocropping" method, most of that land would be STERILE without those same man made additives and would take years and years to bring back into a natural balance. natural forms of farming were abandoned years ago in pursuit of higher yields and even higher profits.

Agreed about the sterile side of things, but there is also a lot of pasture land as well which has basically never been planted on, and so doesn't suffer in the same way, so we are still not totally doomed, just yet

[bigpaul]

(1 December 2014, 16:56)Devonian Wrote: But this is and always will be a huge unknown, none of us really know what will happen (if) and I do mean if such a wide scale event were to ever happen.

so none of us knows what will happen- so we dismiss the possibility out of hand? that's as bad as the sheeple saying "it'll never happen!"

[Devonian]

(1 December 2014, 18:00)Barneyboy Wrote: yeah dev ,let the old and ill stave to death mate ,talking bollocks again dev

OK, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned that last bit, I'll try and keep on topic

But after an event, I'm sure you can see what I mean about everyone needing to 'help out'....

[bigpaul]

(1 December 2014, 18:04)Devonian Wrote: Agreed about the sterile side of things, but there is also a lot of pasture land as well which has basically never been planted on, and so doesn't suffer in the same way, so we are still not totally doomed, just yet

a lot of pasture land is not fit for crops, its poor quality, that's why its pasture land. I know it is around here, the one thing its good for growing is grass and not much else.

[Devonian]

(1 December 2014, 18:04)bigpaul Wrote:

(1 December 2014, 16:56)Devonian Wrote: But this is and always will be a huge unknown, none of us really know what will happen (if) and I do mean if such a wide scale event were to ever happen.

so none of us knows what will happen- so we dismiss the possibility out of hand? that's as bad as the sheeple saying "it'll never happen!"

Not at all, and we are discussing it aren't we

But a 90% die off is in many ways the easy option, if however only 5% die off, then we have a much much more difficult situation wouldn't you agree?

So perhaps we need to actually consider what will happen if there is no die off........????

Also I'm trying to base my arguments on historical evidence and so far there is none (that I am aware of) that supports the die off theory, and no that doesn't mean I'm not preparing for it, I just think it is far less likely..........

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(1 December 2014, 18:08)bigpaul Wrote:

(1 December 2014, 18:04)Devonian Wrote: Agreed about the sterile side of things, but there is also a lot of pasture land as well which has basically never been planted on, and so doesn't suffer in the same way, so we are still not totally doomed, just yet

a lot of pasture land is not fit for crops, its poor quality, that's why its pasture land. I know it is around here, the one thing its good for growing is grass and not much else.

Not necessarily.

Pasture land is often hilly land which is more difficult to safely use machinery on.

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Also flood plains can be too boggy to use heavy farm machinery on, but the grounds are very fertile and rich.

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(1 December 2014, 18:04)John Wrote: Well I thank you for many varied responses.
At least it has confirmed to me that the majority who appear to be preppers still have their eyes firmly closed on the long term. They treat it as a joke that it will all be over in short period and back to some semblance of normality. The biggest thing is that they don’t even want to discuss or debate it. They are so entrenched in their own view, especially some of our American friends who appear to think they are God’s gift to the world, that they don’t even consider other views. As Mortblanc kindly said, ‘Been a long time since I read that much BS in such a compact form.’
That comment just goes to show the arrogance of some of our American ‘friends’.
I was quite prepared to debate this seriously but the comments posted say I would only be hitting my head against a brick wall.
I no longer consider it worth my while staying on the site. I don’t even see the point in looking at it.
If you do wish to contact me and I doubt you will, but just in case. Let Big Paul have your email address and he will forward it to me.
Preppers generally cannot think into the longer term. As stated at the beginning of the post, we must use what we have, from what is initially left, use it wisely not for the now but to get us to a future without what we have now. Do not kid yourself if the collapse is really bad or maybe even half bad you are going to lose electricity and once you do for anything other than maybe a few days that will be it. Yes you may have your solar panels that may last a few years but eventually they are going to breakdown or wear out and no matter how many spare parts you stock they will soon be gone.
But many cannot see this and fail to plan for life without it. Not just maybe for themselves but for those that follow. The same applies for much of what we take for granted today. "Survivalists are preppers, preppers are not survivalists" and therein lies the problem.
I will be requesting SD to remove my details from this list as I see no point in continuing.
I take on board what Mortblanc says: When you hear that small inner voice speaking to you, consider the source and ignore it. I hear and I am ignoring it.
Best of Luck

Sorry John, but have "you considered" that possibly it is yourself that is not prepared to discuss these matters and that perhaps your views are entrenched?

Now I now from we met that you are very passionate about these matters but I do think that you do not necessarily give mankind enough credibility for his ingenuity and resourcefulness to overcome issues.

[bigpaul]

the "die off" is not my invention, it has been remarked and discussed on many prepping and survival blogs and websites, google them and read for yourself. actually without the land available and with no imports we NEED a large die off as we cannot hope to feed everyone(we also need a clear out of the gene pool but that's a separate discussion!) and if no die off we really have got a much bigger problem than if there was one. what about the plague/black death? that wiped out about 40% of the population and we have a larger, more closely packed, more travelled, population these days so infection would spread more easily.

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what about Ebola/Swine flu/Avian flu etc etc?

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[quote='Devonian' pid='87124' dateline='1417453888'

give mankind enough credibility for his ingenuity and resourcefulness to overcome issues.
[/quote]
it wont be the likes of Mr Dyson or Mr Branson hanging around to pick up the pieces after "the collapse", that sort will be long gone along with the politicos to their private islands, what we will be left with will be the "flotsam and jetsam" the dregs of society, the sort that you saw in the Autumn riots of 3 years ago, the sort you see in the Anarchy protests or the sort you see in Furguson USA. I don't know about you DEV but i'll be "bugged out" and hunkered down away from all the idiots and those" mainlining in stupid".

[Barneyboy]

wtshtf they will be a good food sauce that's a joke by the way guys I don't mean it the old will be a big help with there smarts that come with age ,and you can make good shoes out of there leathery skin that is a joke again

[NorthernRaider]

Dev wrote
"There is one piece of farm equipment that doesn't rely on petrol/oil and we potentially have 65 million of them that could be put to work..........
If you don't work, you don't get fed - shame it's not the same now!! ""

I could not agree more.
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Barney wrote
"yeah dev ,let the old and ill stave to death mate ,talking bollocks again dev"

Barney if you feel a great debt to your fellow men then by all means you take em in and feed em all, but dont expect the rest of us to carry the deadweight
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John, I think you are still trying to build a prepper community with you in charge as you muted some years ago, it wont work for multiple reasons then or now. You appear and intransigent as the others of strong opinions, try embracing and respecting them all its easier than fighting them. As for MB its just a simple case of mind over matter We dont mind and he doesnt matter
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Dev BP is right that much pasture and arable land would take many years of tilling, weeding, treating, draining, developing to become hald decent food production land, unless we use Barney and his mates as slaves

Overall I think if we did face a societal collapse and we had no oil or imported foods then YES a population reduction is most likely, but I am not certain DIE OFF is the correct way to describe it, a gradual down sizing or gradual contraction in the population would almost be inevitable as the country had to adapt its population and current economic climate to meet its remaining local resources. A gradual decline because of a reduced or quality of diet, and it would be compounded by a die off of those reliant on expensive exotic medications like Insulin if our economy collapses, plus a lack of modern pharmas and other stuff that costs money and is made from oil is likely to reduce life expectancy if not actually killing off people.

I don't think their will be time, will or funds for " charitable" intentions if something big happens.

Who knows all we can do is keep prepping with a GENERAL approach but with perhaps a bit of bias towards your own particular worst case scenario.